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[Music]

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hello

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and welcome to the show i'm martin

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willis your host

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and we got a great show for you this

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evening paul dean

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as you see him up on the screen here on

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youtube and i want to thank you

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um for the people out there that are

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watching this live

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i do appreciate that you are in

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uh the room so to speak on facebook and

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youtube

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and uh so uh paul is uh he's from

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australia

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if you haven't heard about him in the

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past um he's an amazing guy

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he focuses deeply on government and

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military

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involvement um in response uh to the ufo

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phenomena

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so we'll be talking to him in just a

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minute but a couple things first

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um again i want to thank everyone for

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being here i want to thank everyone

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that listens everyone behind the scenes

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and of course people that support the

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show

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i couldn't do it without you so i thank

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you very much we are simulcast

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on facebook there is a chat room in

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there and actually shows up on the

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screen here which is pretty

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pretty interesting um so if you go over

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to podcastufo.com you'll see our latest

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blog

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by charles lear it's called ufos over

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michigan

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and the swamp gas explanation

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uh that's the thing that alan heineck

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actually never lived down

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so uh it's great blog and as some of you

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that

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have this show in your podcast feed um

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wherever you get your podcast you'll

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notice that

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these audio blogs are going in to uh

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the feed about mid-week so charles

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actually you know the author of these

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blogs actually reads them

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and sends them to me and i put them up

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so you can

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hear them actually on youtube as well

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putting them there

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and no calls tonight but uh as usual

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i'll be uh i'll try to keep an eye on

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the chat

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tonight and if you want to post a

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question for our guest

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it's probably a good idea if you put it

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in all caps to make sure that i

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i don't miss it and you know what i

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think that's going to be it for me and

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i'm going to bring our guest in right

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now

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well welcome to the show paul hi how's

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it going martin

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uh this is going great thank you so much

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for being with us

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and uh we had to do a little bit of

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maneuvering but we got you here

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yeah i'm not very good with computers no

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no i meant as far as the date you know

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we're doing the show

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sunday night and it's monday morning

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we're in the future yeah

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yeah sometimes the time zone thing's

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terrible yeah it's weird

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yeah it's even harder with the west

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coast actually it's really hard with the

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west coast of you yeah

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and it's always so strange to that your

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country is going into summer now and

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we're starting to get the chill here

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yeah so yeah yeah it's not cold anymore

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it's

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yeah

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you

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exactly i'm down south east so right

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down the south east

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um so melbourne so a bit south of sydney

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um

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most of australia's cities are on the

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east coast um

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and i'm down the bottom yeah yeah oh wow

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yeah i mean australia is all coastal

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basically i mean

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it's a population yeah it's all around

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the coast it's a bit like

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you know they say that you know i think

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90

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of canada's population are along the

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border well in australia

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it's 90 percent of australia's

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population are you know just on the

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coastline there's virtually nothing

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amazing amazing and uh i think there's

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like 25

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million people something like that 25

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years 25 million people and yet we're

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this

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we're just only slightly smaller than

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the continental united states so it's

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very very sparsely populated

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and it's one of the most populated

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places in the world

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wow and uh one of my top listeners to

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this show

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are australians which is amazing oh

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really it's usually the second or third

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in the when i actually go through and

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take a look uh so there's a lot of

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fascination with ufos in australia there

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has to be yeah

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yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah there is there

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is i would say

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there's a lot of people in interested

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maybe not maybe not um dedicated

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researchers but there's a lot of people

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who

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i would call them ufo buffs i mean

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they're certainly interested they're

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reasonably well read

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um they've absorbed the right material

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over the years

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i get quite a lot of contact with people

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like that but um as far as

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hardcore researchers that really do

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stuff there's not many of us

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unfortunately

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same thing in new zealand very few like

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one or two

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that's it how about that it's bad it's

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bad

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guess well

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um that you hear a lot here now there

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are

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you know i look at also uh the

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demographics there's a lot of young

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people

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18 to 35 that listen to the show but uh

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but you don't see them at conf

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you don't see a lot of younger people at

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conferences

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um and i'm sure it's probably the same

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there right

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i've spoken at conferences been to

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conferences it's a mix but i would

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it's not most people would be in their

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50s or 60s that go to conferences that's

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what i've found i've

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i've stood there looking out at the

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audience and some of them are in

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wheelchairs

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you know like that so like they're so

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you know

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into the 80s so that's also not a good

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sign it's either people

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people are people are doing everything

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online

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or still possibly reading books there's

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nothing wrong with that but

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as far as um yeah certainly attending

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conferences and conferences aren't that

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big for me i mean like when you when

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conferences are happening happening

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you know vast majority of the audience

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are already true believers

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and half and then half of them would be

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fairly

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um mentally marginal if you know what i

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mean

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so it's not i don't think conferences

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actually do much

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you know i don't i think they appeal to

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meteorologists or university professors

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in the

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areas or whatever

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of something i've noticed which is

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frustrating it's not like the 70s and

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80s where all sorts of people missile

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experts rocket experts

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you know rocket scientists nuclear

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engineers would appear at conferences

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willy-nilly it's not like that anymore

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well you know uh last september in uh

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phoenix

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i met uh ben hurle um

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on the show and he was with his whole

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group there from

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victoria yeah yeah so that was a lot of

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fun

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uh yeah good place guys

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yeah yeah um so can you can you

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tell the listening audience how you got

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involved

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you know what sparked your interest in

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in this field

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well there's two things that probably

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spark my interest the first one is um

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my dad um my father was

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uh in the army um in the australian army

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he was

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cartography surveying

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it was actually with the royal surveying

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regiment which is

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australia's premier mapping cartography

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um topology hydrography

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um entity within the australian army

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and and he he

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he was assigned to for many years to a

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military base

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in victoria my state called pakapanil

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and um

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and he he's aside from that he's a very

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scientific guy like he's a very

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technically minded guy

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and um he he was back in 1975 so a bit

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before i was born

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dad was driving from sydney to melbourne

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which is probably the equivalent a bit

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like driving from san francisco to los

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angeles

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like just without the traffic um and

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it's eight hours or so yeah yeah yeah

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about seven whatever yeah

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and uh but dad being my dad took the

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long way

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sorry took the short way instead of

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driving just on the highway he took

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he took various back roads and he was

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right in the middle of the trip

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middle of the night unfortunately a

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story we hear all the time this is a

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single witness case the witness is

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fine but it was just him alone at night

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as well which is

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always you know a daylight disc sighting

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or a daylight

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ufo signing is is is is more compelling

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or tangible than anything at night in my

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wife unless

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unless you're an astronaut or a pilot or

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something that might be a bit different

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but

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my dad's driving along and out in front

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of him through the trees

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we've got all these junky yucky trees in

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australia called eucalypts

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and they're sort of these nailed

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undensed trees it's not like looking

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through conifer forest like you'd find

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in oregon or washington or something

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it's

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them dad dad saw a um dad was driving

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along

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you know 60 miles an hour a bit faster

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um

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he saw a perfectly circular light like a

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like a

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sort of

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way up ahead of him and he's thinking

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um he's thinking it's you know it's not

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car headlights miles too big

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and it's not making much progress like

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there's not much it's not they're going

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past each other anytime soon

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and he thought it's going to be a train

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train headlight right

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but he's thinking it's pretty high right

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so we're coming up to a hill well the

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hill never

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eventuated but this he uh he simply

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witnessed over we'll say

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four or five minutes three four five

286
00:09:47,430 --> 00:09:45,040
minutes this

287
00:09:49,430 --> 00:09:47,440
this spherical or circular light just

288
00:09:50,470 --> 00:09:49,440
get higher and higher and higher in the

289
00:09:53,750 --> 00:09:50,480
sky

290
00:09:56,150 --> 00:09:53,760
um and so he's thinking it's got to be

291
00:09:57,430 --> 00:09:56,160
um a huge flood light on a grain silo

292
00:10:00,710 --> 00:09:57,440
maybe or it's

293
00:10:02,310 --> 00:10:00,720
a searchlight on a helicopter um but

294
00:10:03,990 --> 00:10:02,320
he'd been around helicopters for years

295
00:10:07,269 --> 00:10:04,000
and helicopters just don't

296
00:10:08,630 --> 00:10:07,279
hover and just aim a searchlight just

297
00:10:10,870 --> 00:10:08,640
ahead i mean there's flickering and

298
00:10:12,710 --> 00:10:10,880
moving around and and um

299
00:10:14,069 --> 00:10:12,720
anyway the ultimate test was he turned

300
00:10:17,110 --> 00:10:14,079
it turned his engine off

301
00:10:18,790 --> 00:10:17,120
put it into neutral and so there's no

302
00:10:21,110 --> 00:10:18,800
noise so he wound his window down so all

303
00:10:22,949 --> 00:10:21,120
he's got is the noise of a a

304
00:10:24,870 --> 00:10:22,959
tyre like tyres going along the road and

305
00:10:26,389 --> 00:10:24,880
a bit of wind and he puts his ear out

306
00:10:27,430 --> 00:10:26,399
the window and he's expecting to hear

307
00:10:29,430 --> 00:10:27,440
that

308
00:10:31,750 --> 00:10:29,440
yeah the helicopters nothing happens

309
00:10:33,190 --> 00:10:31,760
right there's no noise no noise at all

310
00:10:34,790 --> 00:10:33,200
so that spooks him a bit anyway the

311
00:10:35,590 --> 00:10:34,800
thing's above him now it's definitely

312
00:10:38,949 --> 00:10:35,600
airborne

313
00:10:40,870 --> 00:10:38,959
right and um he he just

314
00:10:42,069 --> 00:10:40,880
he couldn't do much he did he he didn't

315
00:10:43,829 --> 00:10:42,079
stop

316
00:10:45,509 --> 00:10:43,839
he he he was pretty sure it wasn't a

317
00:10:46,069 --> 00:10:45,519
plane with a with a searchlight or a

318
00:10:48,069 --> 00:10:46,079
helicopter

319
00:10:50,150 --> 00:10:48,079
was sure of that so he just had to keep

320
00:10:52,230 --> 00:10:50,160
going driving and driving and driving

321
00:10:54,389 --> 00:10:52,240
and a few minutes later he was of the

322
00:10:57,190 --> 00:10:54,399
assumption that it was behind him

323
00:10:58,630 --> 00:10:57,200
and just as he was relaxing all of a

324
00:11:00,470 --> 00:10:58,640
sudden his entire car lit up

325
00:11:02,870 --> 00:11:00,480
like the road lit up whatever this thing

326
00:11:03,829 --> 00:11:02,880
was shooting a light on him right it's

327
00:11:06,389 --> 00:11:03,839
now targeting

328
00:11:07,350 --> 00:11:06,399
and he said this is not unusual for my

329
00:11:09,110 --> 00:11:07,360
father but he

330
00:11:11,110 --> 00:11:09,120
um he just completely flawed like he

331
00:11:13,030 --> 00:11:11,120
just completely so you know 100 miles an

332
00:11:14,790 --> 00:11:13,040
hour 120 miles an hour as far as fast

333
00:11:17,110 --> 00:11:14,800
and far as he could go he was spooked

334
00:11:18,150 --> 00:11:17,120
right so he told us this story he used

335
00:11:19,910 --> 00:11:18,160
to tell us this story

336
00:11:21,190 --> 00:11:19,920
yeah he told me this story when i was

337
00:11:22,710 --> 00:11:21,200
say 10 11.

338
00:11:24,230 --> 00:11:22,720
the other thing that got me into it is

339
00:11:25,670 --> 00:11:24,240
just briefly and the listeners will

340
00:11:29,030 --> 00:11:25,680
probably know this one

341
00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:29,040
um off the coast of melbourne in 1978

342
00:11:33,990 --> 00:11:32,560
uh october 21st a pilot went missing

343
00:11:35,990 --> 00:11:34,000
a pilot by the name of frederick

344
00:11:37,110 --> 00:11:36,000
valentick it was already put that in the

345
00:11:38,870 --> 00:11:37,120
chat

346
00:11:41,110 --> 00:11:38,880
pardon someone already put that in the

347
00:11:43,269 --> 00:11:41,120
chat yeah yeah so paul of frederick

348
00:11:43,990 --> 00:11:43,279
olynyk goes missing 7 30 8 o'clock at

349
00:11:46,389 --> 00:11:44,000
night

350
00:11:47,350 --> 00:11:46,399
um he goes missing but what was what was

351
00:11:49,829 --> 00:11:47,360
weird about it

352
00:11:51,030 --> 00:11:49,839
was that his last 12 minutes of radio

353
00:11:54,949 --> 00:11:51,040
conversation with

354
00:11:56,470 --> 00:11:54,959
um like flight services unit air traffic

355
00:11:59,590 --> 00:11:56,480
control at tullamarine airport

356
00:12:01,910 --> 00:11:59,600
um it was a flight services unit um

357
00:12:03,430 --> 00:12:01,920
air traffic controller steve roby um

358
00:12:05,350 --> 00:12:03,440
they had this 12 minute conversation

359
00:12:08,829 --> 00:12:05,360
this broken conversation

360
00:12:10,870 --> 00:12:08,839
and um it's pretty scary friedrich

361
00:12:13,990 --> 00:12:10,880
valentick

362
00:12:17,269 --> 00:12:14,000
describes being

363
00:12:19,829 --> 00:12:17,279
followed harassed encircled by a

364
00:12:21,110 --> 00:12:19,839
silvery metallic object with strange

365
00:12:24,310 --> 00:12:21,120
green lights on it

366
00:12:25,590 --> 00:12:24,320
it's all shiny on the outside um and his

367
00:12:28,150 --> 00:12:25,600
final words

368
00:12:29,829 --> 00:12:28,160
were uh melbourne that aircraft is

369
00:12:32,150 --> 00:12:29,839
hovering on top of me again

370
00:12:32,949 --> 00:12:32,160
it's hovering and it's not an aircraft

371
00:12:35,430 --> 00:12:32,959
yes

372
00:12:36,790 --> 00:12:35,440
then that's it it was nothing else ever

373
00:12:38,470 --> 00:12:36,800
he was never seen again the plane was

374
00:12:40,310 --> 00:12:38,480
never

375
00:12:42,150 --> 00:12:40,320
before we move on from that i have a

376
00:12:44,870 --> 00:12:42,160
question for you do you think that

377
00:12:47,030 --> 00:12:44,880
original recording exists somewhere

378
00:12:48,949 --> 00:12:47,040
because i know they did a re-enactment

379
00:12:50,790 --> 00:12:48,959
i know it does i know for a fact it does

380
00:12:52,150 --> 00:12:50,800
yeah i can say i can tell you enough

381
00:12:54,230 --> 00:12:52,160
about that um

382
00:12:55,910 --> 00:12:54,240
i can tell you so the actual original

383
00:12:57,509 --> 00:12:55,920
recording that was actually at the air

384
00:12:59,750 --> 00:12:57,519
at the airport it's taken

385
00:13:01,190 --> 00:12:59,760
because once you start an accident once

386
00:13:03,110 --> 00:13:01,200
the back then the bureau of air safety

387
00:13:06,069 --> 00:13:03,120
investigations air

388
00:13:07,750 --> 00:13:06,079
air accidents branch once they start an

389
00:13:09,430 --> 00:13:07,760
investigation the investigation goes for

390
00:13:11,430 --> 00:13:09,440
a minimum of 30 days no matter how

391
00:13:13,990 --> 00:13:11,440
uninteresting or solvable it is

392
00:13:15,750 --> 00:13:14,000
what they do they take the um they take

393
00:13:17,829 --> 00:13:15,760
the uh nine

394
00:13:18,870 --> 00:13:17,839
like the the one and a half inch reels

395
00:13:20,790 --> 00:13:18,880
off the machine

396
00:13:22,470 --> 00:13:20,800
they take it underground the airport to

397
00:13:24,069 --> 00:13:22,480
the investigation facility

398
00:13:26,150 --> 00:13:24,079
where experts like communications

399
00:13:29,110 --> 00:13:26,160
experts and various technical experts

400
00:13:31,350 --> 00:13:29,120
analyze the the audio so you've got this

401
00:13:33,829 --> 00:13:31,360
huge reel that's taken off now that

402
00:13:35,590 --> 00:13:33,839
that was played over and over and over

403
00:13:35,829 --> 00:13:35,600
again for the technical experts but what

404
00:13:44,230 --> 00:13:35,839
i

405
00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:44,240
you know sequestered away to the you

406
00:13:50,470 --> 00:13:47,519
know department of defense or

407
00:13:52,629 --> 00:13:50,480
the dio who's who oh sorry the jio who

408
00:13:54,470 --> 00:13:52,639
would be the equivalent of your cia here

409
00:13:56,150 --> 00:13:54,480
or whatever but i do believe that it was

410
00:13:58,150 --> 00:13:56,160
actually put back into service and just

411
00:14:00,710 --> 00:13:58,160
rewritten over however

412
00:14:02,949 --> 00:14:00,720
we know for a fact absolute fact that

413
00:14:04,949 --> 00:14:02,959
the family of the pilot

414
00:14:06,470 --> 00:14:04,959
so guido valentick and his wife alberta

415
00:14:07,509 --> 00:14:06,480
so the parents of the pilot they were

416
00:14:13,670 --> 00:14:07,519
given a copy

417
00:14:16,870 --> 00:14:13,680
by the victorian tasmanian region's

418
00:14:18,389 --> 00:14:16,880
manager for air safety as a memento

419
00:14:20,150 --> 00:14:18,399
for their son because their son had died

420
00:14:23,269 --> 00:14:20,160
or potentially died and disappeared

421
00:14:24,870 --> 00:14:23,279
so they were given a copy that copy

422
00:14:26,710 --> 00:14:24,880
and well they weren't supposed to do

423
00:14:28,310 --> 00:14:26,720
this but that copy was a copy was made

424
00:14:31,189 --> 00:14:28,320
of that copy and given to a uf

425
00:14:32,389 --> 00:14:31,199
a a us researcher based in australia

426
00:14:34,550 --> 00:14:32,399
called paul norman

427
00:14:36,710 --> 00:14:34,560
paul norman gave a copy to dick haynes

428
00:14:37,509 --> 00:14:36,720
so that's one copy we know of or a trial

429
00:14:39,269 --> 00:14:37,519
of copies

430
00:14:41,350 --> 00:14:39,279
i also know for a fact i'm never going

431
00:14:44,949 --> 00:14:41,360
to name names but i know for a fact

432
00:14:47,189 --> 00:14:44,959
the two people who worked at tullamarine

433
00:14:48,710 --> 00:14:47,199
airport also stole copies so they went

434
00:14:50,949 --> 00:14:48,720
in with their own equipment like

435
00:14:52,710 --> 00:14:50,959
an old ghetto blaster with the right

436
00:14:54,550 --> 00:14:52,720
like wire cables and stuff

437
00:14:56,949 --> 00:14:54,560
plugged it into the big investigation

438
00:14:58,150 --> 00:14:56,959
machine stole copies technically it's

439
00:15:00,310 --> 00:14:58,160
theft um

440
00:15:01,269 --> 00:15:00,320
but whatever it doesn't matter they took

441
00:15:04,389 --> 00:15:01,279
copies home so

442
00:15:07,509 --> 00:15:04,399
we've got we've got um three streams of

443
00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:07,519
of copies one's legal and so we've got

444
00:15:10,949 --> 00:15:09,440
to declines it gets a bit illegal

445
00:15:13,269 --> 00:15:10,959
and the other two are definitely stolen

446
00:15:15,189 --> 00:15:13,279
and unofficial i know that for a fact

447
00:15:16,790 --> 00:15:15,199
wow but you've never actually heard the

448
00:15:19,990 --> 00:15:16,800
original have you i have

449
00:15:20,949 --> 00:15:20,000
i haven't got wow and is it as scary as

450
00:15:23,269 --> 00:15:20,959
it seems like

451
00:15:24,230 --> 00:15:23,279
no no not at all it's it's it's not at

452
00:15:25,750 --> 00:15:24,240
all it's it's it's

453
00:15:28,230 --> 00:15:25,760
for starters the first thing that struck

454
00:15:30,150 --> 00:15:28,240
me is how unbelievably old it sounds

455
00:15:31,350 --> 00:15:30,160
it doesn't even sound like i know for a

456
00:15:33,990 --> 00:15:31,360
fact that it is real

457
00:15:35,030 --> 00:15:34,000
because we've had someone confirm well

458
00:15:37,110 --> 00:15:35,040
for starters

459
00:15:38,629 --> 00:15:37,120
steve roby the air traffic controller's

460
00:15:40,150 --> 00:15:38,639
voice is

461
00:15:42,150 --> 00:15:40,160
in there like he's doing most of the

462
00:15:44,069 --> 00:15:42,160
talking actually at all half of it

463
00:15:46,550 --> 00:15:44,079
anyway and his voice

464
00:15:47,910 --> 00:15:46,560
um is exactly like what it is today like

465
00:15:49,269 --> 00:15:47,920
like it's definitely him there's no

466
00:15:50,550 --> 00:15:49,279
question about it like his mannerisms

467
00:15:52,710 --> 00:15:50,560
his slang his

468
00:15:55,189 --> 00:15:52,720
tone whatever now the other voice which

469
00:15:57,670 --> 00:15:55,199
is of course valentik who's

470
00:15:59,269 --> 00:15:57,680
saying that he's seeing a ufo right he's

471
00:16:01,910 --> 00:15:59,279
gone but

472
00:16:03,749 --> 00:16:01,920
we've had someone who knew valentik

473
00:16:05,430 --> 00:16:03,759
confirm that he's definitely his voice

474
00:16:07,110 --> 00:16:05,440
there's no question about it it's it's

475
00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:07,120
not that interesting honestly

476
00:16:10,790 --> 00:16:08,800
i listened to it three times and by the

477
00:16:13,910 --> 00:16:10,800
end of it i was bored there's nothing no

478
00:16:15,910 --> 00:16:13,920
it's not um it's not scary he's not hit

479
00:16:17,030 --> 00:16:15,920
the levels of distress are really not

480
00:16:18,949 --> 00:16:17,040
that high

481
00:16:21,509 --> 00:16:18,959
it almost sounds like it's from the 50s

482
00:16:23,430 --> 00:16:21,519
or 60s it's really old

483
00:16:25,590 --> 00:16:23,440
like it's it's really dated and it's

484
00:16:26,069 --> 00:16:25,600
very it's it's actually like he's having

485
00:16:27,509 --> 00:16:26,079
a very

486
00:16:29,350 --> 00:16:27,519
most of it's just simply like he's

487
00:16:30,949 --> 00:16:29,360
having a very normal conversation

488
00:16:32,550 --> 00:16:30,959
then it might get a little bit heartened

489
00:16:33,829 --> 00:16:32,560
towards the end then it just stopped

490
00:16:37,189 --> 00:16:33,839
that's it

491
00:16:40,310 --> 00:16:37,199
how about that when he says

492
00:16:41,749 --> 00:16:40,320
it's it's not an aircraft and it's

493
00:16:42,310 --> 00:16:41,759
literally he just says it like that he

494
00:16:45,829 --> 00:16:42,320
just says

495
00:16:47,430 --> 00:16:45,839
uh melbourne that aircraft is hovering

496
00:16:48,870 --> 00:16:47,440
on top of me again it's hovering and

497
00:16:50,550 --> 00:16:48,880
it's not an aircraft

498
00:16:51,910 --> 00:16:50,560
that's it he doesn't he's not screaming

499
00:16:53,269 --> 00:16:51,920
and yelling and jumping about the place

500
00:16:55,749 --> 00:16:53,279
it's not like that at all

501
00:16:58,710 --> 00:16:55,759
and is there any audio of any noises

502
00:17:01,350 --> 00:16:58,720
over or anything like uh yeah

503
00:17:03,269 --> 00:17:01,360
yeah you might realize that what is

504
00:17:05,350 --> 00:17:03,279
weird is that

505
00:17:07,029 --> 00:17:05,360
after he says well what happens is after

506
00:17:09,429 --> 00:17:07,039
he said those words

507
00:17:10,309 --> 00:17:09,439
steve roby who was the air traffic

508
00:17:13,029 --> 00:17:10,319
controller says

509
00:17:13,750 --> 00:17:13,039
delta sierra juliet come in delta sierra

510
00:17:17,270 --> 00:17:13,760
juliet

511
00:17:19,110 --> 00:17:17,280
there's nothing but after that

512
00:17:20,710 --> 00:17:19,120
there's 17 seconds of this weird

513
00:17:22,549 --> 00:17:20,720
metallic scraping noise

514
00:17:24,470 --> 00:17:22,559
it almost sounds like someone's got a

515
00:17:25,189 --> 00:17:24,480
tin can like an empty tin can put a

516
00:17:27,350 --> 00:17:25,199
marble in it

517
00:17:29,510 --> 00:17:27,360
and spins it round like spinning around

518
00:17:29,990 --> 00:17:29,520
a marble yeah in a tin can like that

519
00:17:32,310 --> 00:17:30,000
it's the

520
00:17:34,390 --> 00:17:32,320
weirdest thing and i've never heard of

521
00:17:37,029 --> 00:17:34,400
i've had air traffic controllers

522
00:17:38,710 --> 00:17:37,039
listen to it who were air traffic

523
00:17:39,750 --> 00:17:38,720
controlling in the 70s and 80s

524
00:17:40,950 --> 00:17:39,760
and they sort of scratched their heads

525
00:17:42,390 --> 00:17:40,960
and they said i don't even really ever

526
00:17:44,310 --> 00:17:42,400
heard anything like this

527
00:17:45,590 --> 00:17:44,320
like it could be the plane hitting the

528
00:17:47,029 --> 00:17:45,600
water and and

529
00:17:49,110 --> 00:17:47,039
and and water getting into the

530
00:17:51,270 --> 00:17:49,120
microphone it could be it could be him

531
00:17:52,950 --> 00:17:51,280
making contact with something that's

532
00:17:55,830 --> 00:17:52,960
you know like whatever aircraft was up

533
00:17:57,909 --> 00:17:55,840
there or ufo or whatever it was

534
00:17:59,190 --> 00:17:57,919
it could be burning like a fire i i just

535
00:18:00,870 --> 00:17:59,200
don't know

536
00:18:03,190 --> 00:18:00,880
isn't that something though wow yeah it

537
00:18:06,070 --> 00:18:03,200
is weird what is interesting as well is

538
00:18:07,190 --> 00:18:06,080
is i've talked to an faa communications

539
00:18:10,470 --> 00:18:07,200
guy

540
00:18:12,150 --> 00:18:10,480
like a a a a an expert in

541
00:18:14,230 --> 00:18:12,160
in in federal aviation like in your

542
00:18:15,110 --> 00:18:14,240
country so so the way pilots talk to

543
00:18:17,350 --> 00:18:15,120
grand cruz

544
00:18:19,350 --> 00:18:17,360
with their slang and their technical

545
00:18:20,710 --> 00:18:19,360
speech or whatever and he said to me he

546
00:18:22,150 --> 00:18:20,720
said look if the

547
00:18:24,390 --> 00:18:22,160
he was actually quite skeptical of the

548
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:24,400
entire thing but he said look

549
00:18:28,310 --> 00:18:26,640
if a ufo case went down he said this is

550
00:18:29,590 --> 00:18:28,320
actually how i'd expect it to go

551
00:18:30,710 --> 00:18:29,600
right they're not going to say flying

552
00:18:32,150 --> 00:18:30,720
saucer and there's little green men

553
00:18:33,510 --> 00:18:32,160
hanging out the windows and i'm going to

554
00:18:35,590 --> 00:18:33,520
die and all this sort of stuff

555
00:18:37,510 --> 00:18:35,600
he said this is actually how his exact

556
00:18:39,510 --> 00:18:37,520
words he said this is how i would expect

557
00:18:41,990 --> 00:18:39,520
it to basically go

558
00:18:43,430 --> 00:18:42,000
so there you go yeah isn't that

559
00:18:46,150 --> 00:18:43,440
something wow

560
00:18:47,830 --> 00:18:46,160
yeah that that is quite a fantastic um

561
00:18:49,510 --> 00:18:47,840
so the reason the reason that affected

562
00:18:51,190 --> 00:18:49,520
me is because this is this happened off

563
00:18:53,029 --> 00:18:51,200
the coast of victoria so

564
00:18:54,789 --> 00:18:53,039
it's it's often in the news even years

565
00:18:56,789 --> 00:18:54,799
later my family don't like it like it's

566
00:18:57,750 --> 00:18:56,799
brought up on tablet and tabloid

567
00:19:00,230 --> 00:18:57,760
magazines and

568
00:19:00,870 --> 00:19:00,240
and and you see it's it's brought up

569
00:19:03,430 --> 00:19:00,880
it's dragged

570
00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:03,440
every year on october 21st and um it's

571
00:19:06,950 --> 00:19:05,200
on you know like the equivalent of what

572
00:19:07,590 --> 00:19:06,960
you have is 60 minutes we've got shows

573
00:19:09,190 --> 00:19:07,600
like that

574
00:19:10,310 --> 00:19:09,200
it's on that every now and again and

575
00:19:11,510 --> 00:19:10,320
people are actually pretty sick of it

576
00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:11,520
we're not going to solve it

577
00:19:16,789 --> 00:19:14,640
that's 40 years ago and and very old

578
00:19:18,470 --> 00:19:16,799
and it is odd that there was no debris

579
00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:18,480
in the water no oil slick or anything

580
00:19:21,990 --> 00:19:19,200
like that

581
00:19:22,310 --> 00:19:22,000
i never found anything marine services

582
00:19:25,270 --> 00:19:22,320
look

583
00:19:26,390 --> 00:19:25,280
it's a big place you know it's it's not

584
00:19:29,029 --> 00:19:26,400
it's not

585
00:19:30,710 --> 00:19:29,039
entirely surprising i mean we have ships

586
00:19:32,230 --> 00:19:30,720
going down that you know

587
00:19:33,909 --> 00:19:32,240
that are absolutely enormous we can't

588
00:19:37,750 --> 00:19:33,919
even find them so

589
00:19:40,870 --> 00:19:37,760
it's not it but it is yeah it

590
00:19:41,590 --> 00:19:40,880
it is it is certainly um it's part of

591
00:19:43,510 --> 00:19:41,600
the story

592
00:19:45,190 --> 00:19:43,520
for sure you know they the thing that's

593
00:19:46,710 --> 00:19:45,200
different about the ships well maybe

594
00:19:48,230 --> 00:19:46,720
they do know where a ship is when it

595
00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:48,240
goes down but um

596
00:19:52,070 --> 00:19:51,200
but you know they knew his path you know

597
00:19:53,350 --> 00:19:52,080
his yeah

598
00:19:54,470 --> 00:19:53,360
you know they kind of knew where he

599
00:19:55,669 --> 00:19:54,480
would have had you would have think that

600
00:19:58,230 --> 00:19:55,679
that would have found something

601
00:19:59,350 --> 00:19:58,240
yeah i didn't yeah yeah it's just one of

602
00:20:00,710 --> 00:19:59,360
those mysteries there are a lot of

603
00:20:03,190 --> 00:20:00,720
mysteries in this

604
00:20:04,390 --> 00:20:03,200
you know and this you know involved in

605
00:20:07,350 --> 00:20:04,400
this topic that

606
00:20:08,950 --> 00:20:07,360
i don't think will ever hear the answer

607
00:20:09,510 --> 00:20:08,960
you know this hypes this absolutely

608
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:09,520
heights

609
00:20:13,510 --> 00:20:12,240
especially roswell the king of them i

610
00:20:15,669 --> 00:20:13,520
don't think we'll ever know

611
00:20:17,350 --> 00:20:15,679
i've never started i refuse to it would

612
00:20:18,950 --> 00:20:17,360
take 20 years to study the amount of

613
00:20:20,149 --> 00:20:18,960
material we've got i mean i just rely on

614
00:20:21,270 --> 00:20:20,159
everyone else to do it like kevin

615
00:20:23,270 --> 00:20:21,280
randell or

616
00:20:25,350 --> 00:20:23,280
whatever like so over it that you know

617
00:20:28,710 --> 00:20:25,360
yeah like

618
00:20:30,789 --> 00:20:28,720
yeah um so as far as you

619
00:20:31,990 --> 00:20:30,799
like getting all these great documents

620
00:20:32,710 --> 00:20:32,000
and we're going to be talking about that

621
00:20:36,310 --> 00:20:32,720
tonight

622
00:20:38,310 --> 00:20:36,320
um what what started you doing i mean

623
00:20:41,669 --> 00:20:38,320
where did you come up with that idea

624
00:20:44,950 --> 00:20:43,590
what happened was about so i've been

625
00:20:48,310 --> 00:20:44,960
studying the topic

626
00:20:50,230 --> 00:20:48,320
for since i was about 13 and um

627
00:20:51,590 --> 00:20:50,240
i've read all or i read all the great

628
00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:51,600
works you know from

629
00:20:54,789 --> 00:20:53,760
ufo controversy in america by david m

630
00:20:56,710 --> 00:20:54,799
jacobs or

631
00:20:59,350 --> 00:20:56,720
ufos yes when where the content

632
00:21:03,510 --> 00:20:59,360
committee went wrong by saunders or

633
00:21:05,430 --> 00:21:03,520
um like honest to famous books or

634
00:21:06,630 --> 00:21:05,440
whatever i'd read all the right material

635
00:21:09,669 --> 00:21:06,640
over and over again

636
00:21:11,350 --> 00:21:09,679
and um and then the internet came along

637
00:21:13,590 --> 00:21:11,360
and i was able to expand a bit but

638
00:21:16,710 --> 00:21:13,600
something that something that surprised

639
00:21:18,870 --> 00:21:16,720
me what i thought was very important

640
00:21:20,950 --> 00:21:18,880
was something that we lacked a lot in

641
00:21:21,990 --> 00:21:20,960
australia in australian research like in

642
00:21:25,270 --> 00:21:22,000
contemporary times

643
00:21:27,830 --> 00:21:25,280
was um no one really knew like

644
00:21:30,230 --> 00:21:27,840
even bill chalker and keith basterfield

645
00:21:32,230 --> 00:21:30,240
really no one in australia really knew

646
00:21:34,630 --> 00:21:32,240
say this is like you know seven eight

647
00:21:37,990 --> 00:21:34,640
years ago nine years ago

648
00:21:39,430 --> 00:21:38,000
no one knew what australia's policy on

649
00:21:43,510 --> 00:21:39,440
ufos whether it be

650
00:21:46,070 --> 00:21:43,520
stray aircraft how to physically

651
00:21:47,430 --> 00:21:46,080
report a ufo and no one knew it's

652
00:21:49,110 --> 00:21:47,440
because there's so many organizations

653
00:21:50,230 --> 00:21:49,120
that deal with aerospace so

654
00:21:53,190 --> 00:21:50,240
you know there's the royal australian

655
00:21:54,549 --> 00:21:53,200
air force at radar level like 41 wing

656
00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:54,559
there's royal australian air force

657
00:21:58,230 --> 00:21:56,400
actual flying operations where pilots

658
00:22:00,470 --> 00:21:58,240
would see things maybe there's the

659
00:22:03,029 --> 00:22:00,480
australian transport and safety bureau

660
00:22:04,390 --> 00:22:03,039
that handles air safety there's air

661
00:22:05,830 --> 00:22:04,400
services australia which run the

662
00:22:08,070 --> 00:22:05,840
airports and navigational and

663
00:22:10,549 --> 00:22:08,080
communications systems for pilots

664
00:22:12,549 --> 00:22:10,559
any and the royal australian navy that

665
00:22:13,190 --> 00:22:12,559
there's that many organizations that

666
00:22:16,630 --> 00:22:13,200
should have

667
00:22:19,750 --> 00:22:16,640
issue

668
00:22:20,230 --> 00:22:19,760
and what i did i realized i realized

669
00:22:24,470 --> 00:22:20,240
that

670
00:22:26,390 --> 00:22:24,480
even know we didn't even know the

671
00:22:27,830 --> 00:22:26,400
terminology they were using like we

672
00:22:31,110 --> 00:22:27,840
couldn't i could honestly not

673
00:22:34,230 --> 00:22:31,120
find a single reference to i mean did

674
00:22:36,070 --> 00:22:34,240
the royal australian air forces say

675
00:22:37,510 --> 00:22:36,080
um did their air command do they call

676
00:22:39,350 --> 00:22:37,520
ufos do they call them

677
00:22:40,950 --> 00:22:39,360
an identified aerial phenomenon do they

678
00:22:42,950 --> 00:22:40,960
call them unknown aircraft

679
00:22:44,870 --> 00:22:42,960
in a radar setting do they call them a

680
00:22:47,669 --> 00:22:44,880
bogey or do they call them an

681
00:22:51,190 --> 00:22:47,679
uncorrelated target or an unknown object

682
00:22:53,270 --> 00:22:51,200
or a hit or a unknown traffic

683
00:22:55,510 --> 00:22:53,280
you know in any visual settings do

684
00:22:56,630 --> 00:22:55,520
people call ufos stray aircraft

685
00:22:59,669 --> 00:22:56,640
phenomena

686
00:23:02,070 --> 00:22:59,679
um drone whatever look we

687
00:23:04,070 --> 00:23:02,080
we had no idea so the first thing i did

688
00:23:05,830 --> 00:23:04,080
i started writing to

689
00:23:07,110 --> 00:23:05,840
i wrote to the chief of air which is a

690
00:23:09,270 --> 00:23:07,120
bit like your um

691
00:23:10,710 --> 00:23:09,280
chief of air force or secretary of the

692
00:23:12,310 --> 00:23:10,720
air force one of the two

693
00:23:13,830 --> 00:23:12,320
so yeah i wrote to our chief of air i

694
00:23:15,990 --> 00:23:13,840
wrote to our chief of navy

695
00:23:17,350 --> 00:23:16,000
i wrote to the legal department at air

696
00:23:19,110 --> 00:23:17,360
safety australia the

697
00:23:21,430 --> 00:23:19,120
australian safety transport bureau and

698
00:23:22,070 --> 00:23:21,440
so on i sent out many letters to

699
00:23:25,110 --> 00:23:22,080
ministers

700
00:23:27,190 --> 00:23:25,120
congressman um

701
00:23:28,950 --> 00:23:27,200
but i sent many letters and what was

702
00:23:30,950 --> 00:23:28,960
funny was is um

703
00:23:32,390 --> 00:23:30,960
is i got so many different answers back

704
00:23:33,750 --> 00:23:32,400
i got different answers from different

705
00:23:36,710 --> 00:23:33,760
departments and

706
00:23:37,909 --> 00:23:36,720
i um and i started asking more pointed

707
00:23:39,909 --> 00:23:37,919
questions like

708
00:23:42,070 --> 00:23:39,919
you know i started writing back and and

709
00:23:42,789 --> 00:23:42,080
i started asking very pointed questions

710
00:23:48,789 --> 00:23:42,799
like

711
00:23:51,510 --> 00:23:48,799
controlled airspace how do you actually

712
00:23:53,190 --> 00:23:51,520
handle it as opposed to say uncontrolled

713
00:23:55,029 --> 00:23:53,200
airspace like over the ocean near

714
00:23:57,029 --> 00:23:55,039
indonesia or something like that

715
00:23:58,230 --> 00:23:57,039
and i was getting this flurry of

716
00:24:01,590 --> 00:23:58,240
information coming back

717
00:24:03,830 --> 00:24:01,600
about well terminology and phraseology

718
00:24:05,190 --> 00:24:03,840
what they do and don't do in particular

719
00:24:06,630 --> 00:24:05,200
like a matrix of what they

720
00:24:08,470 --> 00:24:06,640
you know like if it's in control

721
00:24:09,269 --> 00:24:08,480
airspace they give it three chances to

722
00:24:11,590 --> 00:24:09,279
land or

723
00:24:13,669 --> 00:24:11,600
identify itself and if it doesn't they

724
00:24:16,070 --> 00:24:13,679
can uh well when it does land they can

725
00:24:16,789 --> 00:24:16,080
arrest it whatever uh in uncontrolled

726
00:24:18,470 --> 00:24:16,799
airspace

727
00:24:19,750 --> 00:24:18,480
they if it's going away from australia

728
00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:19,760
they ignore it if it's coming towards

729
00:24:21,990 --> 00:24:20,640
australia

730
00:24:23,269 --> 00:24:22,000
they monitor it and they put fighter

731
00:24:24,950 --> 00:24:23,279
jets on alert this sort of thing i

732
00:24:26,950 --> 00:24:24,960
learned this over time

733
00:24:29,029 --> 00:24:26,960
but what i also learned another thing i

734
00:24:31,590 --> 00:24:29,039
learned was with civil pilots so

735
00:24:33,750 --> 00:24:31,600
non-military pilots there's actually two

736
00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:33,760
ways that they can report a ufo and

737
00:24:36,310 --> 00:24:35,440
nobody done this in australia no one has

738
00:24:39,430 --> 00:24:36,320
studied this for

739
00:24:41,110 --> 00:24:39,440
30 years and the two ways are ones one

740
00:24:42,630 --> 00:24:41,120
if you want to report a ufo or

741
00:24:44,470 --> 00:24:42,640
or a balloon that's nearly hit you or a

742
00:24:47,909 --> 00:24:44,480
stray aircraft or maybe

743
00:24:49,830 --> 00:24:47,919
a very suspicious contrail you reported

744
00:24:51,430 --> 00:24:49,840
via well to air services australia you

745
00:24:54,630 --> 00:24:51,440
can report it by via an

746
00:24:57,190 --> 00:24:54,640
electronically submitted event report

747
00:24:59,350 --> 00:24:57,200
or you can submit to the australian

748
00:25:02,310 --> 00:24:59,360
transport safety bureau you can submit

749
00:25:02,950 --> 00:25:02,320
a um a ufo report it's called an

750
00:25:05,350 --> 00:25:02,960
accident

751
00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:05,360
incident notification summary so there's

752
00:25:08,870 --> 00:25:07,200
two ways of reporting ufos so the what

753
00:25:10,789 --> 00:25:08,880
the first thing i did of course

754
00:25:13,110 --> 00:25:10,799
was using the freedom of information act

755
00:25:15,590 --> 00:25:13,120
which is very powerful in australia

756
00:25:17,350 --> 00:25:15,600
is i went straight to both those

757
00:25:20,470 --> 00:25:17,360
agencies and said i want

758
00:25:22,310 --> 00:25:20,480
you know eight years worth of visa

759
00:25:23,830 --> 00:25:22,320
reports or accident investigation

760
00:25:25,269 --> 00:25:23,840
summary reports

761
00:25:27,590 --> 00:25:25,279
so yeah i went to air services

762
00:25:31,029 --> 00:25:27,600
australian um and atsb

763
00:25:33,590 --> 00:25:31,039
and i said i want all lisa reports and

764
00:25:34,149 --> 00:25:33,600
um notification reports that mention the

765
00:25:36,789 --> 00:25:34,159
words

766
00:25:38,789 --> 00:25:36,799
ufo unknown object unknown flying or

767
00:25:41,990 --> 00:25:38,799
blah blah blah all the key words drone

768
00:25:43,510 --> 00:25:42,000
missile whatever and it took a while but

769
00:25:45,350 --> 00:25:43,520
sure enough the documents started

770
00:25:47,430 --> 00:25:45,360
pouring out you know the

771
00:25:48,390 --> 00:25:47,440
pilots had reported ufos in australian

772
00:25:50,470 --> 00:25:48,400
airspace

773
00:25:51,990 --> 00:25:50,480
for a long long long time it's just that

774
00:25:53,350 --> 00:25:52,000
no one knew about it

775
00:25:55,190 --> 00:25:53,360
no one in the public knew about it the

776
00:25:57,029 --> 00:25:55,200
media's not that interested so

777
00:25:59,029 --> 00:25:57,039
um so that was one thing i did very

778
00:26:01,830 --> 00:25:59,039
early on wow

779
00:26:03,269 --> 00:26:01,840
yeah that's a key thing i mean that's

780
00:26:04,470 --> 00:26:03,279
pretty major if no one's ever done it

781
00:26:05,750 --> 00:26:04,480
before especially yeah

782
00:26:07,750 --> 00:26:05,760
it was good and something else that

783
00:26:09,269 --> 00:26:07,760
happened which was really suspicious

784
00:26:10,789 --> 00:26:09,279
this really got me and it happened very

785
00:26:11,669 --> 00:26:10,799
early on because i've been reading about

786
00:26:14,630 --> 00:26:11,679
governmental

787
00:26:15,590 --> 00:26:14,640
disinformation and cover-up and and

788
00:26:17,029 --> 00:26:15,600
bypassing

789
00:26:18,390 --> 00:26:17,039
and we've been all reading about this

790
00:26:20,230 --> 00:26:18,400
stuff for so long it's not funny

791
00:26:27,430 --> 00:26:20,240
particularly from the united states

792
00:26:31,269 --> 00:26:29,590
i had one of the first questions i'd

793
00:26:32,310 --> 00:26:31,279
asked the royal australian air force i

794
00:26:34,950 --> 00:26:32,320
asked them do you

795
00:26:35,909 --> 00:26:34,960
use the term ufo and they came back to

796
00:26:38,149 --> 00:26:35,919
me and said

797
00:26:39,669 --> 00:26:38,159
we never use the term ufo we use

798
00:26:42,549 --> 00:26:39,679
unidentified traffic

799
00:26:43,029 --> 00:26:42,559
stray aircraft blah blah blah right i

800
00:26:45,430 --> 00:26:43,039
also

801
00:26:46,789 --> 00:26:45,440
wrote very early on to air services

802
00:26:49,110 --> 00:26:46,799
australia

803
00:26:50,950 --> 00:26:49,120
asking what terminology they used and

804
00:26:53,990 --> 00:26:50,960
again it wasn't ufo

805
00:26:56,149 --> 00:26:54,000
and here's what was weird

806
00:26:58,070 --> 00:26:56,159
about a year later i did an fy request

807
00:27:00,549 --> 00:26:58,080
that didn't particularly go anywhere

808
00:27:01,990 --> 00:27:00,559
but i mean i've done many for requests

809
00:27:03,190 --> 00:27:02,000
but the one i'm talking ab

810
00:27:05,190 --> 00:27:03,200
didn't wasn't particularly that

811
00:27:08,470 --> 00:27:05,200
interesting but what i did do

812
00:27:12,070 --> 00:27:08,480
is i then foi the foi so

813
00:27:14,070 --> 00:27:12,080
i yeah so you foi your case file so that

814
00:27:15,510 --> 00:27:14,080
will include into so basically i went to

815
00:27:17,909 --> 00:27:15,520
them like six months later

816
00:27:21,110 --> 00:27:17,919
and said and said hey about eight months

817
00:27:23,430 --> 00:27:21,120
ago six months ago i did an foi into xyz

818
00:27:24,230 --> 00:27:23,440
i want my corporate and case file so

819
00:27:27,269 --> 00:27:24,240
that means

820
00:27:27,909 --> 00:27:27,279
my original foi their final reply their

821
00:27:30,310 --> 00:27:27,919
internal

822
00:27:31,909 --> 00:27:30,320
emails minutes of meetings that they had

823
00:27:35,190 --> 00:27:31,919
about my foi request

824
00:27:36,310 --> 00:27:35,200
memoranda routing slips deaf grams

825
00:27:39,430 --> 00:27:36,320
whatever

826
00:27:40,950 --> 00:27:39,440
and and they said okay yep you can have

827
00:27:42,710 --> 00:27:40,960
all our internal correspondence about

828
00:27:44,710 --> 00:27:42,720
you that's basically what they said fine

829
00:27:48,389 --> 00:27:44,720
so i waited you know a few months

830
00:27:51,510 --> 00:27:48,399
and out comes about 59 emails between

831
00:27:53,909 --> 00:27:51,520
wow like but so so it out come a bunch

832
00:27:57,990 --> 00:27:53,919
of emails and what was weird was

833
00:28:01,190 --> 00:27:58,000
was in there there was an email

834
00:28:03,430 --> 00:28:01,200
from a squadron leader jody hatch

835
00:28:04,389 --> 00:28:03,440
to group captain which is equivalent of

836
00:28:07,750 --> 00:28:04,399
colonel

837
00:28:09,430 --> 00:28:07,760
director of coordination for the whole

838
00:28:13,430 --> 00:28:09,440
royal australian air force

839
00:28:16,070 --> 00:28:13,440
and it said this it said dear barb

840
00:28:17,830 --> 00:28:16,080
i've just contacted air services

841
00:28:21,350 --> 00:28:17,840
australia

842
00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:21,360
on who there handles ufo

843
00:28:26,389 --> 00:28:24,640
and uae reports and apparently it is the

844
00:28:29,669 --> 00:28:26,399
national operations center

845
00:28:31,269 --> 00:28:29,679
and i'm thinking hold on two years ago

846
00:28:33,350 --> 00:28:31,279
or a year ago

847
00:28:35,110 --> 00:28:33,360
air services australia told me that they

848
00:28:36,630 --> 00:28:35,120
don't use the term ufo and royal

849
00:28:37,990 --> 00:28:36,640
australian air force said they don't use

850
00:28:40,710 --> 00:28:38,000
the term ufo

851
00:28:42,389 --> 00:28:40,720
and yet here in writing it says dear bob

852
00:28:43,590 --> 00:28:42,399
i've just contacted air service

853
00:28:46,389 --> 00:28:43,600
australia

854
00:28:46,870 --> 00:28:46,399
about who handles ufo sightings so that

855
00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:46,880
so

856
00:28:51,750 --> 00:28:50,320
australian air force or air services

857
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:51,760
australia probably royal australian air

858
00:28:54,950 --> 00:28:53,440
force they do use the term ufo i mean

859
00:28:56,630 --> 00:28:54,960
she put it right there in writing

860
00:28:58,149 --> 00:28:56,640
but what was really interesting was

861
00:29:01,510 --> 00:28:58,159
straight after the word ufo

862
00:29:04,310 --> 00:29:01,520
it also says or uae

863
00:29:05,750 --> 00:29:04,320
like so so basically says dear bob um

864
00:29:07,110 --> 00:29:05,760
i've just contacted air services

865
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:07,120
australia

866
00:29:12,310 --> 00:29:09,840
about how they or who or who their

867
00:29:13,830 --> 00:29:12,320
handles ufo and uae sightings

868
00:29:15,430 --> 00:29:13,840
so when we've got the term ufo which

869
00:29:17,190 --> 00:29:15,440
apparently they don't use

870
00:29:20,070 --> 00:29:17,200
right but they do use it now we should

871
00:29:22,070 --> 00:29:20,080
find and two what's this uae

872
00:29:23,190 --> 00:29:22,080
and i never got to the bottom of the

873
00:29:25,350 --> 00:29:23,200
second issue i

874
00:29:26,630 --> 00:29:25,360
i've asked and asked us what is a uae

875
00:29:27,990 --> 00:29:26,640
the only thing i can think of is

876
00:29:30,710 --> 00:29:28,000
something like unidentified

877
00:29:32,149 --> 00:29:30,720
aerial events or something like that i

878
00:29:34,230 --> 00:29:32,159
was trying to figure it out too

879
00:29:36,070 --> 00:29:34,240
wow yeah unidentified airborne event

880
00:29:37,909 --> 00:29:36,080
that the ease probably event the u

881
00:29:39,669 --> 00:29:37,919
is probably typically unidentified or

882
00:29:42,470 --> 00:29:39,679
unknown or unusual maybe

883
00:29:44,070 --> 00:29:42,480
but never got to i asked and i asked and

884
00:29:45,350 --> 00:29:44,080
i asked and i can't even remember how

885
00:29:46,549 --> 00:29:45,360
that went down i might have to actually

886
00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:46,559
revisit that but

887
00:29:50,230 --> 00:29:49,200
but what was we and then to top it off

888
00:29:52,149 --> 00:29:50,240
so this is basically

889
00:29:53,430 --> 00:29:52,159
defense saying to defense like defense

890
00:29:54,470 --> 00:29:53,440
department saying to someone else in

891
00:29:56,149 --> 00:29:54,480
defence department

892
00:29:57,510 --> 00:29:56,159
you know contacted air services

893
00:30:00,149 --> 00:29:57,520
australia

894
00:30:01,430 --> 00:30:00,159
to work out who handles ufo and uae

895
00:30:03,830 --> 00:30:01,440
sightings

896
00:30:05,590 --> 00:30:03,840
and then it says then it says i found

897
00:30:07,430 --> 00:30:05,600
out that it was the national operations

898
00:30:08,549 --> 00:30:07,440
center for air services australia so

899
00:30:10,230 --> 00:30:08,559
then i find out

900
00:30:11,990 --> 00:30:10,240
that it's the national operations center

901
00:30:14,630 --> 00:30:12,000
it's actually in brisbane i think

902
00:30:16,070 --> 00:30:14,640
um that handles ufo sightings yet

903
00:30:17,830 --> 00:30:16,080
another thing we didn't know i mean air

904
00:30:19,110 --> 00:30:17,840
services australia had told keith

905
00:30:22,149 --> 00:30:19,120
basterfield in

906
00:30:23,669 --> 00:30:22,159
about 1999 or 2000 that they do not

907
00:30:25,350 --> 00:30:23,679
handle it ufo sightings

908
00:30:27,750 --> 00:30:25,360
which you find absolutely ridiculous

909
00:30:29,590 --> 00:30:27,760
because ufo of course the

910
00:30:31,350 --> 00:30:29,600
key part of it i mean it could be drones

911
00:30:32,870 --> 00:30:31,360
or stray research balloons or whatever

912
00:30:35,110 --> 00:30:32,880
of course someone [\h__\h] handles it

913
00:30:36,070 --> 00:30:35,120
right like the they have to they haven't

914
00:30:39,669 --> 00:30:36,080
got a choice no

915
00:30:41,990 --> 00:30:39,679
modern civil safety authority

916
00:30:43,350 --> 00:30:42,000
right uh it cannot handle some level of

917
00:30:45,350 --> 00:30:43,360
ufo sightings

918
00:30:47,190 --> 00:30:45,360
so so we kate knew that that was

919
00:30:47,830 --> 00:30:47,200
basically wrong but to actually see it

920
00:30:49,350 --> 00:30:47,840
there

921
00:30:51,269 --> 00:30:49,360
in writing that the national operations

922
00:30:53,350 --> 00:30:51,279
center handles ufo

923
00:30:54,870 --> 00:30:53,360
uh sightings by pilots was was

924
00:30:58,070 --> 00:30:54,880
interesting you know

925
00:30:58,630 --> 00:30:58,080
how about that wow and uh i wonder if

926
00:31:01,990 --> 00:30:58,640
they use

927
00:31:03,110 --> 00:31:02,000
you know uap is what you hear in this

928
00:31:06,549 --> 00:31:03,120
country a lot

929
00:31:10,149 --> 00:31:06,559
you know and britain yeah yeah but uh

930
00:31:12,310 --> 00:31:10,159
yeah the ufo uh term

931
00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:12,320
uh cost me um i'm trying to think who

932
00:31:19,190 --> 00:31:13,360
was uh

933
00:31:23,350 --> 00:31:21,509
he said you know i'd love to be on your

934
00:31:24,070 --> 00:31:23,360
show but he says i can't be on any show

935
00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:24,080
that has

936
00:31:29,669 --> 00:31:27,360
the word ufo in the title he was serious

937
00:31:30,950 --> 00:31:29,679
yeah he's pretty he's pretty cynical now

938
00:31:33,110 --> 00:31:30,960
like i know him

939
00:31:34,230 --> 00:31:33,120
yeah yeah he's pretty over it like yeah

940
00:31:34,950 --> 00:31:34,240
i could see him saying that i could

941
00:31:37,750 --> 00:31:34,960
picture that

942
00:31:39,430 --> 00:31:37,760
yeah yeah he retired now but uh but

943
00:31:41,430 --> 00:31:39,440
still a really nice gentleman i really

944
00:31:42,549 --> 00:31:41,440
enjoyed uh some talks with him he's a

945
00:31:44,870 --> 00:31:42,559
great guy

946
00:31:46,710 --> 00:31:44,880
but yeah he's donated his archive

947
00:31:48,549 --> 00:31:46,720
actually they're sorting it out um he

948
00:31:49,029 --> 00:31:48,559
will have i mean he's he ran he ran his

949
00:31:51,269 --> 00:31:49,039
narco

950
00:31:52,149 --> 00:31:51,279
that narcap organization and he

951
00:31:54,470 --> 00:31:52,159
generated look

952
00:31:56,149 --> 00:31:54,480
look really like that a good thousand or

953
00:31:58,789 --> 00:31:56,159
two thousand major

954
00:32:00,870 --> 00:31:58,799
or at least interesting airliner and

955
00:32:02,149 --> 00:32:00,880
pilot cases oh yeah a lot of civilian

956
00:32:03,830 --> 00:32:02,159
ones which is good and a lot of

957
00:32:07,509 --> 00:32:03,840
international stuff you know

958
00:32:09,909 --> 00:32:07,519
um yeah yeah you know i mean that

959
00:32:11,269 --> 00:32:09,919
there's so many you know you mentioned

960
00:32:12,870 --> 00:32:11,279
in australia

961
00:32:15,669 --> 00:32:12,880
you know pilots were having encounters

962
00:32:18,789 --> 00:32:15,679
you uncovered that but there's probably

963
00:32:20,389 --> 00:32:18,799
many many many that we don't even know

964
00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:20,399
about we'll never know about i had a

965
00:32:22,710 --> 00:32:21,120
friend

966
00:32:24,230 --> 00:32:22,720
that i hadn't seen in many years he was

967
00:32:26,070 --> 00:32:24,240
on the show just for

968
00:32:28,389 --> 00:32:26,080
just to say hello and talk about a ufo

969
00:32:30,710 --> 00:32:28,399
sighting he had and then he talked about

970
00:32:31,509 --> 00:32:30,720
his father's his father was a pilot and

971
00:32:34,630 --> 00:32:31,519
his father's

972
00:32:36,230 --> 00:32:34,640
friend that had a ufo sighting

973
00:32:37,669 --> 00:32:36,240
you know uh of course it was never

974
00:32:39,430 --> 00:32:37,679
reported it was yeah

975
00:32:42,149 --> 00:32:39,440
they didn't want to report it yeah you

976
00:32:45,269 --> 00:32:42,159
know there's actually a totally

977
00:32:47,669 --> 00:32:45,279
um there's a totally untapped resource

978
00:32:50,549 --> 00:32:47,679
if people want pilot sightings

979
00:32:51,590 --> 00:32:50,559
there's one untapped resource which is

980
00:32:53,990 --> 00:32:51,600
going to be

981
00:32:55,029 --> 00:32:54,000
fantastic the problem is there's no way

982
00:32:56,870 --> 00:32:55,039
to compel

983
00:32:58,230 --> 00:32:56,880
the reports or the investigations to

984
00:32:59,830 --> 00:32:58,240
ever come out and

985
00:33:01,990 --> 00:32:59,840
it's so simple when you think about it

986
00:33:04,549 --> 00:33:02,000
right but people don't think about this

987
00:33:05,430 --> 00:33:04,559
thank you it's it's just the airlines

988
00:33:06,870 --> 00:33:05,440
themselves

989
00:33:08,070 --> 00:33:06,880
right like if you went to the biggest

990
00:33:09,990 --> 00:33:08,080
airlines in the world you know

991
00:33:12,070 --> 00:33:10,000
continental qantas british airways

992
00:33:13,350 --> 00:33:12,080
right i mean yeah i mean most pilots

993
00:33:15,029 --> 00:33:13,360
aren't going to report even to their

994
00:33:16,230 --> 00:33:15,039
airline but some do there's always a

995
00:33:17,029 --> 00:33:16,240
percentage you know it might be five

996
00:33:19,110 --> 00:33:17,039
percent do

997
00:33:20,310 --> 00:33:19,120
you know they might they might say well

998
00:33:21,509 --> 00:33:20,320
i don't want to report it officially

999
00:33:23,590 --> 00:33:21,519
through this channel or this channel or

1000
00:33:26,630 --> 00:33:23,600
this channel but i do want to tell

1001
00:33:28,230 --> 00:33:26,640
the operations manager at my airline or

1002
00:33:28,789 --> 00:33:28,240
they might get compelled to it might be

1003
00:33:34,070 --> 00:33:28,799
the

1004
00:33:35,029 --> 00:33:34,080
british airways or continental or ua or

1005
00:33:37,110 --> 00:33:35,039
whatever and say look

1006
00:33:38,310 --> 00:33:37,120
we're on a plane you know like we're on

1007
00:33:40,470 --> 00:33:38,320
one of your flights like

1008
00:33:42,630 --> 00:33:40,480
you know two days ago and we saw this

1009
00:33:44,310 --> 00:33:42,640
ufo or whatever out the window and the

1010
00:33:45,509 --> 00:33:44,320
pilot didn't even bother deviating

1011
00:33:47,509 --> 00:33:45,519
whatever and eventually

1012
00:33:48,870 --> 00:33:47,519
i'm thinking that the airline would

1013
00:33:50,230 --> 00:33:48,880
would get in contact with a pilot or

1014
00:33:51,909 --> 00:33:50,240
that flight and say look did you see

1015
00:33:53,110 --> 00:33:51,919
anything up there because we're getting

1016
00:33:56,389 --> 00:33:53,120
stories from

1017
00:33:56,710 --> 00:33:56,399
the crew and what and i'm i'm thinking

1018
00:34:02,230 --> 00:33:56,720
that

1019
00:34:04,630 --> 00:34:02,240
who was it i think it was

1020
00:34:06,070 --> 00:34:04,640
one of the airlines that's what's what

1021
00:34:09,909 --> 00:34:06,080
would be an airline that's

1022
00:34:11,990 --> 00:34:09,919
for florida um southwest or something

1023
00:34:12,950 --> 00:34:12,000
uh well if southwest does go that so

1024
00:34:15,750 --> 00:34:12,960
does jetblue

1025
00:34:16,230 --> 00:34:15,760
um there's um you know all the major

1026
00:34:19,430 --> 00:34:16,240
islands

1027
00:34:21,510 --> 00:34:19,440
uh airlines go to florida i'm thinking i

1028
00:34:23,990 --> 00:34:21,520
i remember vaguely reading

1029
00:34:24,869 --> 00:34:24,000
that in the 90s that i think it was

1030
00:34:27,270 --> 00:34:24,879
southwest

1031
00:34:28,149 --> 00:34:27,280
had had literally a repository of ufo

1032
00:34:30,629 --> 00:34:28,159
sightings

1033
00:34:31,349 --> 00:34:30,639
that that were that would buy pilots

1034
00:34:33,109 --> 00:34:31,359
like like

1035
00:34:34,869 --> 00:34:33,119
by their pilots and it makes sense you

1036
00:34:36,950 --> 00:34:34,879
know if one percent of one percent of

1037
00:34:37,909 --> 00:34:36,960
pilots see ufo for southwest airlines

1038
00:34:40,149 --> 00:34:37,919
when they're flying

1039
00:34:41,669 --> 00:34:40,159
in united states right that's still

1040
00:34:44,149 --> 00:34:41,679
going to amount to 200 or

1041
00:34:45,270 --> 00:34:44,159
500 sightings that they that are tallied

1042
00:34:46,869 --> 00:34:45,280
up now a lot of them won't be

1043
00:34:47,589 --> 00:34:46,879
investigated there's no point there's no

1044
00:34:50,710 --> 00:34:47,599
money in it

1045
00:34:52,310 --> 00:34:50,720
right there's no yeah um yeah so

1046
00:34:54,149 --> 00:34:52,320
but that that is i mean you think about

1047
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:54,159
the number of airlines in the world

1048
00:34:58,150 --> 00:34:56,159
that have been around forever i mean you

1049
00:34:58,790 --> 00:34:58,160
couldn't even count them like there must

1050
00:35:01,589 --> 00:34:58,800
be

1051
00:35:03,190 --> 00:35:01,599
thousands and thousands of reports but

1052
00:35:04,069 --> 00:35:03,200
you can't compel them to release them

1053
00:35:05,910 --> 00:35:04,079
because

1054
00:35:07,349 --> 00:35:05,920
they're not they're private companies so

1055
00:35:09,030 --> 00:35:07,359
they're not subject to the foi

1056
00:35:10,470 --> 00:35:09,040
act or anything else i mean they can

1057
00:35:12,630 --> 00:35:10,480
just tell you to go away like

1058
00:35:13,990 --> 00:35:12,640
they'll just lie and just say we don't

1059
00:35:17,190 --> 00:35:14,000
have any we destroyed them

1060
00:35:18,550 --> 00:35:17,200
it's no interest to us and you know it's

1061
00:35:19,589 --> 00:35:18,560
embarrassing and whatever else they're

1062
00:35:21,349 --> 00:35:19,599
not going to release and they don't have

1063
00:35:23,589 --> 00:35:21,359
to

1064
00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:23,599
unless a judge pushed them maybe then

1065
00:35:27,270 --> 00:35:25,200
but yeah yeah

1066
00:35:29,190 --> 00:35:27,280
well you know i think of you know right

1067
00:35:32,950 --> 00:35:29,200
off the bat it comes to mind

1068
00:35:37,510 --> 00:35:32,960
for me as a united airlines on the

1069
00:35:40,150 --> 00:35:37,520
o'hare incident gates c17 2006

1070
00:35:41,030 --> 00:35:40,160
you know because that was just uh

1071
00:35:42,710 --> 00:35:41,040
completely

1072
00:35:45,109 --> 00:35:42,720
swept under the rug they couldn't talk

1073
00:35:48,069 --> 00:35:45,119
about no one could talk about it

1074
00:35:49,190 --> 00:35:48,079
yeah i know i know it was bad i think

1075
00:35:51,510 --> 00:35:49,200
that was that was

1076
00:35:53,270 --> 00:35:51,520
that was a very that was a panic case i

1077
00:35:54,550 --> 00:35:53,280
mean that that the lid went down on that

1078
00:35:56,870 --> 00:35:54,560
pretty badly

1079
00:35:57,990 --> 00:35:56,880
like i've never really studied it i've

1080
00:35:59,910 --> 00:35:58,000
read bits and pieces

1081
00:36:01,589 --> 00:35:59,920
i mean i've seen you know i've read it a

1082
00:36:02,870 --> 00:36:01,599
bit but there's definitely more avenues

1083
00:36:04,470 --> 00:36:02,880
for research that'll be something that

1084
00:36:06,230 --> 00:36:04,480
in 10 years time or whatever

1085
00:36:08,230 --> 00:36:06,240
will all explode open and a whole bunch

1086
00:36:11,270 --> 00:36:08,240
of pilots and ground crew who

1087
00:36:11,750 --> 00:36:11,280
who are well well [\h__\h] yeah retired

1088
00:36:14,630 --> 00:36:11,760
get

1089
00:36:17,270 --> 00:36:14,640
actually what happened you might find

1090
00:36:18,630 --> 00:36:17,280
it's not as explosive as what you know

1091
00:36:20,550 --> 00:36:18,640
i take a lot of things with a grain of

1092
00:36:21,829 --> 00:36:20,560
salt you know they say that the object

1093
00:36:23,109 --> 00:36:21,839
was this big and then you find out it

1094
00:36:23,910 --> 00:36:23,119
was actually that big or you find out

1095
00:36:25,270 --> 00:36:23,920
there was a hole

1096
00:36:27,190 --> 00:36:25,280
through the cloud that you could see for

1097
00:36:27,829 --> 00:36:27,200
10 minutes and it really was like 30

1098
00:36:29,430 --> 00:36:27,839
seconds

1099
00:36:30,630 --> 00:36:29,440
so but something happened there's no

1100
00:36:32,069 --> 00:36:30,640
question there was a cut there was

1101
00:36:35,510 --> 00:36:32,079
there's a case there to be solved

1102
00:36:36,310 --> 00:36:35,520
or not you know yeah yeah i mean you

1103
00:36:39,589 --> 00:36:36,320
know the the

1104
00:36:41,670 --> 00:36:39,599
the thing that was so uh you know

1105
00:36:42,870 --> 00:36:41,680
amazing about it it's a such a i've been

1106
00:36:45,670 --> 00:36:42,880
there many times

1107
00:36:47,430 --> 00:36:45,680
i go to chicago quite a bit usually um i

1108
00:36:50,630 --> 00:36:47,440
haven't in the last year or two but

1109
00:36:51,190 --> 00:36:50,640
still uh that airport is super super

1110
00:36:53,510 --> 00:36:51,200
busy

1111
00:36:54,790 --> 00:36:53,520
so much traffic there and you know

1112
00:36:57,270 --> 00:36:54,800
whatever it was

1113
00:36:58,390 --> 00:36:57,280
was a threat of uh you know threatening

1114
00:37:01,270 --> 00:36:58,400
yeah

1115
00:37:01,829 --> 00:37:01,280
air safety if nothing else fancy fancy

1116
00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:01,839
having a

1117
00:37:05,270 --> 00:37:04,320
fancy of all the places that you could i

1118
00:37:07,829 --> 00:37:05,280
mean

1119
00:37:08,950 --> 00:37:07,839
like it incredibly dangerous and so

1120
00:37:11,430 --> 00:37:08,960
distracting

1121
00:37:12,790 --> 00:37:11,440
even if even if we find out it actually

1122
00:37:14,950 --> 00:37:12,800
like whatever it was

1123
00:37:16,230 --> 00:37:14,960
like it it yeah you couldn't pick

1124
00:37:18,950 --> 00:37:16,240
anything worth

1125
00:37:20,310 --> 00:37:18,960
it's bigger than jfk like it's so i've

1126
00:37:21,750 --> 00:37:20,320
never been there but i've heard you know

1127
00:37:23,270 --> 00:37:21,760
i know people live in chicago and they

1128
00:37:24,150 --> 00:37:23,280
said this you can't believe how big this

1129
00:37:28,069 --> 00:37:24,160
airport is

1130
00:37:33,190 --> 00:37:30,950
so um now you've gotten into all kinds

1131
00:37:35,750 --> 00:37:33,200
of not just australian documents

1132
00:37:36,710 --> 00:37:35,760
you've reached out all over the place

1133
00:37:40,630 --> 00:37:36,720
right

1134
00:37:43,270 --> 00:37:40,640
yeah yeah i mean like i saw

1135
00:37:43,829 --> 00:37:43,280
um i saw all these avenues like i wanted

1136
00:37:46,790 --> 00:37:43,839
to do

1137
00:37:48,390 --> 00:37:46,800
work that nobody else had ever done or

1138
00:37:50,390 --> 00:37:48,400
that people had all researchers had

1139
00:37:51,430 --> 00:37:50,400
attempted to do but never gotten very

1140
00:37:54,310 --> 00:37:51,440
far or given up

1141
00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:54,320
or whatever and you think logically i

1142
00:37:59,030 --> 00:37:55,680
thought logically

1143
00:38:01,510 --> 00:37:59,040
about this many years ago and um

1144
00:38:03,589 --> 00:38:01,520
like if you think about it logically

1145
00:38:05,750 --> 00:38:03,599
right

1146
00:38:06,630 --> 00:38:05,760
the the organizations will take the

1147
00:38:08,069 --> 00:38:06,640
united states

1148
00:38:09,750 --> 00:38:08,079
as a good example and it's probably the

1149
00:38:12,790 --> 00:38:09,760
best example

1150
00:38:14,550 --> 00:38:12,800
the organizations the very organized

1151
00:38:16,390 --> 00:38:14,560
this is what frustrated me the very

1152
00:38:18,550 --> 00:38:16,400
organizations

1153
00:38:21,190 --> 00:38:18,560
that were that are responsible or were

1154
00:38:24,390 --> 00:38:21,200
in the past responsible for

1155
00:38:27,190 --> 00:38:24,400
um two things atmospheric detection

1156
00:38:28,470 --> 00:38:27,200
so air sovereignty air safety management

1157
00:38:30,310 --> 00:38:28,480
the detection

1158
00:38:32,870 --> 00:38:30,320
and tracking of objects in the

1159
00:38:34,550 --> 00:38:32,880
atmosphere right so that's

1160
00:38:36,069 --> 00:38:34,560
federal aviation administration's

1161
00:38:37,910 --> 00:38:36,079
on-route system

1162
00:38:40,390 --> 00:38:37,920
the radar approach control radars with

1163
00:38:44,069 --> 00:38:40,400
the federal aviation administration

1164
00:38:46,230 --> 00:38:44,079
um then the long-range

1165
00:38:47,910 --> 00:38:46,240
the long-range air defense radars run by

1166
00:38:49,109 --> 00:38:47,920
the united states air force at squadron

1167
00:38:51,349 --> 00:38:49,119
and wing level

1168
00:38:52,790 --> 00:38:51,359
often for norad north american aerospace

1169
00:38:54,870 --> 00:38:52,800
defense command

1170
00:38:56,790 --> 00:38:54,880
um then get into space detection and

1171
00:38:59,030 --> 00:38:56,800
space surveillance so that's run by

1172
00:39:00,630 --> 00:38:59,040
air force space command naval space

1173
00:39:01,589 --> 00:39:00,640
command or what used to be naval space

1174
00:39:04,390 --> 00:39:01,599
command

1175
00:39:06,470 --> 00:39:04,400
um particularly air forces air force

1176
00:39:08,710 --> 00:39:06,480
base command's 21st space wing

1177
00:39:11,030 --> 00:39:08,720
um the missile warning center as part of

1178
00:39:13,349 --> 00:39:11,040
noradam u.s strategic command formerly

1179
00:39:15,430 --> 00:39:13,359
u.s space command back in the 80s

1180
00:39:16,950 --> 00:39:15,440
and it just it just hit me that no

1181
00:39:20,069 --> 00:39:16,960
everyone is banging on

1182
00:39:20,790 --> 00:39:20,079
constantly about the fbi and the cia and

1183
00:39:24,630 --> 00:39:20,800
nasa

1184
00:39:26,230 --> 00:39:24,640
nobody's other than a whole bunch of

1185
00:39:27,990 --> 00:39:26,240
fact sheets and a whole bunch of like

1186
00:39:30,470 --> 00:39:28,000
internal papers and

1187
00:39:31,829 --> 00:39:30,480
buck passing no one i don't believe i

1188
00:39:33,589 --> 00:39:31,839
think nasa's a big

1189
00:39:35,430 --> 00:39:33,599
like it's a big red herring like there's

1190
00:39:36,550 --> 00:39:35,440
nothing there there is no secret

1191
00:39:39,430 --> 00:39:36,560
cover-up with nasa

1192
00:39:41,750 --> 00:39:39,440
i think people have been i mean the nasa

1193
00:39:44,630 --> 00:39:41,760
and the cia and the fbi

1194
00:39:47,030 --> 00:39:44,640
seep into people's ufo government

1195
00:39:49,349 --> 00:39:47,040
cover-up conscience like a poison die

1196
00:39:51,270 --> 00:39:49,359
right it's a total waste of time like

1197
00:39:54,470 --> 00:39:51,280
the very organizations

1198
00:39:57,030 --> 00:39:54,480
that actually do detect and do

1199
00:39:59,270 --> 00:39:57,040
track space objects or atmospheric

1200
00:40:01,270 --> 00:39:59,280
objects which are highly unusual

1201
00:40:02,790 --> 00:40:01,280
keep the data analyze the data we know

1202
00:40:03,589 --> 00:40:02,800
that for a fact or i do i've found the

1203
00:40:05,349 --> 00:40:03,599
documents

1204
00:40:07,349 --> 00:40:05,359
right they're the very organizations

1205
00:40:08,390 --> 00:40:07,359
that no one it's all put in the too hard

1206
00:40:10,550 --> 00:40:08,400
basket you know

1207
00:40:12,390 --> 00:40:10,560
like it gets it it does get very

1208
00:40:15,589 --> 00:40:12,400
complicated you know like

1209
00:40:17,270 --> 00:40:15,599
um air force space commands you know

1210
00:40:19,190 --> 00:40:17,280
you know where where in air force based

1211
00:40:20,470 --> 00:40:19,200
command where do they track objects and

1212
00:40:22,790 --> 00:40:20,480
how you know and you've got to start

1213
00:40:25,750 --> 00:40:22,800
studying long range radar systems and

1214
00:40:27,589 --> 00:40:25,760
geo like like ground electro optical

1215
00:40:29,349 --> 00:40:27,599
surveillance system telescopes and

1216
00:40:32,550 --> 00:40:29,359
you've got to really study about how

1217
00:40:35,910 --> 00:40:32,560
systems work like like long range radar

1218
00:40:39,190 --> 00:40:35,920
um um yeah military telescopes enroute

1219
00:40:41,109 --> 00:40:39,200
tool kits for the faa

1220
00:40:43,190 --> 00:40:41,119
ballistic missile early warning radar

1221
00:40:44,069 --> 00:40:43,200
systems that are networked into fusion

1222
00:40:46,309 --> 00:40:44,079
centers

1223
00:40:48,790 --> 00:40:46,319
at vandenberg air force base or peterson

1224
00:40:50,950 --> 00:40:48,800
air force base or cheyenne mountain or

1225
00:40:51,990 --> 00:40:50,960
or the national military command center

1226
00:40:53,270 --> 00:40:52,000
within the organization

1227
00:40:55,190 --> 00:40:53,280
of the joint chiefs of staff whatever

1228
00:40:55,910 --> 00:40:55,200
you've got to spend years studying this

1229
00:40:58,230 --> 00:40:55,920
stuff

1230
00:40:59,750 --> 00:40:58,240
and nobody very very few people do it

1231
00:41:02,630 --> 00:40:59,760
you know like most of

1232
00:41:03,750 --> 00:41:02,640
yeah and so i slowly learn i slowly

1233
00:41:06,230 --> 00:41:03,760
learned the history

1234
00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:06,240
of atmospheric detection so objects in

1235
00:41:08,550 --> 00:41:06,880
the air

1236
00:41:10,630 --> 00:41:08,560
over continental united states and

1237
00:41:11,190 --> 00:41:10,640
beyond and i learned the history of

1238
00:41:13,190 --> 00:41:11,200
space

1239
00:41:14,870 --> 00:41:13,200
violence that the united states

1240
00:41:16,069 --> 00:41:14,880
government has embarked on from usually

1241
00:41:18,069 --> 00:41:16,079
through the u.s air force

1242
00:41:19,829 --> 00:41:18,079
and i've had to learn it off the heart

1243
00:41:20,230 --> 00:41:19,839
and it's really hard and that's when

1244
00:41:23,829 --> 00:41:20,240
i've been

1245
00:41:26,710 --> 00:41:23,839
able to start finding clues yeah

1246
00:41:27,670 --> 00:41:26,720
that's what i've done that's amazing and

1247
00:41:28,950 --> 00:41:27,680
uh you know

1248
00:41:30,790 --> 00:41:28,960
and there's a question i'm going to pull

1249
00:41:33,990 --> 00:41:30,800
up here in chat in just a second but

1250
00:41:36,870 --> 00:41:34,000
um one thing i've i've

1251
00:41:38,150 --> 00:41:36,880
wondered is i know they track space junk

1252
00:41:40,550 --> 00:41:38,160
and there's like

1253
00:41:43,349 --> 00:41:40,560
so much space junk up there but if they

1254
00:41:45,349 --> 00:41:43,359
track space if they have that capability

1255
00:41:46,950 --> 00:41:45,359
um you know it just makes me wonder are

1256
00:41:49,990 --> 00:41:46,960
they actually seeing

1257
00:41:51,430 --> 00:41:50,000
i mean is a ufo coming in from out there

1258
00:41:53,510 --> 00:41:51,440
and they're seeing

1259
00:41:54,470 --> 00:41:53,520
that too or rising up or something yeah

1260
00:41:57,109 --> 00:41:54,480
they have to be

1261
00:41:58,710 --> 00:41:57,119
i know look i know a lot about this and

1262
00:42:00,550 --> 00:41:58,720
the actual organization

1263
00:42:03,109 --> 00:42:00,560
so there's multiple organizations that

1264
00:42:07,910 --> 00:42:03,119
track stuff in space right

1265
00:42:13,750 --> 00:42:11,030
oh hold on it's there's the um

1266
00:42:14,069 --> 00:42:13,760
uh blah blah blah blah just give me a

1267
00:42:17,510 --> 00:42:14,079
sec

1268
00:42:20,870 --> 00:42:17,520
um yeah so the

1269
00:42:23,829 --> 00:42:20,880
the premier organization is the 21st

1270
00:42:25,670 --> 00:42:23,839
the 21st space wing which is subordinate

1271
00:42:27,510 --> 00:42:25,680
to air force space command which is

1272
00:42:29,910 --> 00:42:27,520
subordinate to

1273
00:42:30,790 --> 00:42:29,920
um the chief of air right like it's it's

1274
00:42:34,150 --> 00:42:30,800
a magic command

1275
00:42:37,510 --> 00:42:34,160
right anyway 21st space wing they

1276
00:42:39,349 --> 00:42:37,520
run the biggest space

1277
00:42:40,870 --> 00:42:39,359
detection and surveillance systems in

1278
00:42:45,589 --> 00:42:40,880
the world so

1279
00:42:47,670 --> 00:42:45,599
there is the um ground electro optical

1280
00:42:49,349 --> 00:42:47,680
uh surveillance system which is made up

1281
00:42:50,069 --> 00:42:49,359
of four telescopes that look out into

1282
00:42:52,550 --> 00:42:50,079
space

1283
00:42:53,510 --> 00:42:52,560
and watch everything that's moving what

1284
00:42:55,910 --> 00:42:53,520
they yeah

1285
00:42:57,670 --> 00:42:55,920
then there is the ballistic missile

1286
00:43:00,630 --> 00:42:57,680
early warning system

1287
00:43:02,150 --> 00:43:00,640
which looks for uh missiles submarine

1288
00:43:04,870 --> 00:43:02,160
launch ballistic missiles and land

1289
00:43:06,069 --> 00:43:04,880
launch ballistic missiles but also has a

1290
00:43:08,470 --> 00:43:06,079
secondary role of

1291
00:43:10,309 --> 00:43:08,480
simply looking at orbiting space objects

1292
00:43:12,710 --> 00:43:10,319
there is the paved pause system

1293
00:43:14,870 --> 00:43:12,720
that looks at either east and west of

1294
00:43:17,270 --> 00:43:14,880
the united states there is the eglin

1295
00:43:19,190 --> 00:43:17,280
radar system that looks over cuba it's

1296
00:43:21,270 --> 00:43:19,200
dedicated again to

1297
00:43:23,109 --> 00:43:21,280
high atmospheric detection so missile

1298
00:43:25,910 --> 00:43:23,119
warheads high-flying aircraft

1299
00:43:27,349 --> 00:43:25,920
meteorites and then also has a simple

1300
00:43:28,950 --> 00:43:27,359
space violence role of watching

1301
00:43:32,069 --> 00:43:28,960
everything that goes around

1302
00:43:35,510 --> 00:43:32,079
i've studied this so heavily and what

1303
00:43:37,109 --> 00:43:35,520
amazes me absolutely baffles me

1304
00:43:38,870 --> 00:43:37,119
something i've learned and it's and it's

1305
00:43:41,750 --> 00:43:38,880
required the freedom of information

1306
00:43:42,470 --> 00:43:41,760
acting of many documents what's shocked

1307
00:43:44,470 --> 00:43:42,480
me the most

1308
00:43:46,150 --> 00:43:44,480
is how unbelievably advanced the

1309
00:43:49,750 --> 00:43:46,160
technology was

1310
00:43:52,150 --> 00:43:49,760
way back like i'm talking the 50s like

1311
00:43:52,790 --> 00:43:52,160
yeah i've got documents i can read one

1312
00:43:54,069 --> 00:43:52,800
in a minute

1313
00:43:55,990 --> 00:43:54,079
from i've got a document for instance

1314
00:43:58,470 --> 00:43:56,000
from 1980 which is what

1315
00:44:00,150 --> 00:43:58,480
nearly 40 years 40 years ago 40 years

1316
00:44:02,230 --> 00:44:00,160
and i could not believe

1317
00:44:03,910 --> 00:44:02,240
what the with where and it was the eglin

1318
00:44:06,550 --> 00:44:03,920
site it was the eglin

1319
00:44:08,309 --> 00:44:06,560
uh it was the england s-band uh yeah it

1320
00:44:10,390 --> 00:44:08,319
was the eckland radar that looks

1321
00:44:11,510 --> 00:44:10,400
south over brazil and you know the

1322
00:44:13,589 --> 00:44:11,520
caribbean

1323
00:44:15,589 --> 00:44:13,599
and they can they can actually are

1324
00:44:18,470 --> 00:44:15,599
rooted after but they had the capability

1325
00:44:20,630 --> 00:44:18,480
with 1970s technology it was the 20th

1326
00:44:21,670 --> 00:44:20,640
missile this 20th missile warning

1327
00:44:23,510 --> 00:44:21,680
squadron

1328
00:44:25,109 --> 00:44:23,520
with the england massive england radar

1329
00:44:26,069 --> 00:44:25,119
system it's like a huge pyramid on its

1330
00:44:28,470 --> 00:44:26,079
side sort of thing

1331
00:44:30,230 --> 00:44:28,480
they actually had the capability in 1980

1332
00:44:31,109 --> 00:44:30,240
and remember this will be 60s and 70s

1333
00:44:34,150 --> 00:44:31,119
technology

1334
00:44:35,430 --> 00:44:34,160
with maybe 19 late 970s software they

1335
00:44:38,390 --> 00:44:35,440
had the capability

1336
00:44:38,790 --> 00:44:38,400
of looking at an object two three four

1337
00:44:41,589 --> 00:44:38,800
five

1338
00:44:42,470 --> 00:44:41,599
six seven hundred miles away into space

1339
00:44:44,630 --> 00:44:42,480
right or at least

1340
00:44:46,710 --> 00:44:44,640
sort of on the horizon towards space

1341
00:44:47,670 --> 00:44:46,720
they could look at an object for a few

1342
00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:47,680
seconds

1343
00:44:51,990 --> 00:44:50,400
they could measure its width its height

1344
00:44:53,589 --> 00:44:52,000
its radar cross section like how

1345
00:44:54,550 --> 00:44:53,599
reflective it is and potentially how big

1346
00:44:56,870 --> 00:44:54,560
it is

1347
00:44:58,150 --> 00:44:56,880
they could measure its like exact

1348
00:45:00,150 --> 00:44:58,160
orbital velocity

1349
00:45:01,750 --> 00:45:00,160
like velocity they could calculate any

1350
00:45:04,309 --> 00:45:01,760
deviations it made

1351
00:45:05,510 --> 00:45:04,319
right this is in 19 this is 1970s

1352
00:45:07,589 --> 00:45:05,520
technology

1353
00:45:09,670 --> 00:45:07,599
like i've got another new i've got

1354
00:45:12,230 --> 00:45:09,680
another it's unreal i've got another

1355
00:45:12,870 --> 00:45:12,240
i've got another document from 1960

1356
00:45:14,790 --> 00:45:12,880
where

1357
00:45:17,030 --> 00:45:14,800
it actually says that with the ballistic

1358
00:45:17,430 --> 00:45:17,040
missile early warning system which is a

1359
00:45:19,589 --> 00:45:17,440
tri

1360
00:45:20,630 --> 00:45:19,599
site based in greenland alaska and

1361
00:45:24,790 --> 00:45:20,640
england

1362
00:45:25,510 --> 00:45:24,800
right even in 1960 but by 1960 they had

1363
00:45:28,950 --> 00:45:25,520
already done

1364
00:45:31,190 --> 00:45:28,960
analytical studies on what missiles look

1365
00:45:33,190 --> 00:45:31,200
like on a radar on their radar screen

1366
00:45:34,710 --> 00:45:33,200
what meteorites look like on their radar

1367
00:45:36,069 --> 00:45:34,720
screen what orbiting

1368
00:45:37,750 --> 00:45:36,079
satellites would look like on their

1369
00:45:39,349 --> 00:45:37,760
radar screen they've already done these

1370
00:45:41,430 --> 00:45:39,359
parameters and projections

1371
00:45:43,030 --> 00:45:41,440
of what different space objects should

1372
00:45:45,510 --> 00:45:43,040
look like to the user

1373
00:45:47,030 --> 00:45:45,520
and what different space objects should

1374
00:45:47,910 --> 00:45:47,040
say to the computer systems like the

1375
00:45:51,190 --> 00:45:47,920
radars

1376
00:45:53,109 --> 00:45:51,200
the radar's data will will have with

1377
00:45:55,030 --> 00:45:53,119
the computer system will analyze radar

1378
00:45:56,950 --> 00:45:55,040
data and immediately tell the you

1379
00:45:58,150 --> 00:45:56,960
the user who's the guy with you know the

1380
00:45:59,990 --> 00:45:58,160
headphones and the

1381
00:46:01,670 --> 00:46:00,000
alert buttons will say right we've got a

1382
00:46:02,309 --> 00:46:01,680
missile or it's just sputnik going

1383
00:46:04,309 --> 00:46:02,319
around again

1384
00:46:06,390 --> 00:46:04,319
or it's a flock of geese whatever it

1385
00:46:09,670 --> 00:46:06,400
actually had that in the 50s

1386
00:46:11,030 --> 00:46:09,680
no joke yeah so now what happens is to

1387
00:46:11,829 --> 00:46:11,040
answer your question what happens is

1388
00:46:18,550 --> 00:46:11,839
when

1389
00:46:21,750 --> 00:46:18,560
the the ultra long range radar fence

1390
00:46:23,829 --> 00:46:21,760
or say the um the ground electro

1391
00:46:25,109 --> 00:46:23,839
optical space file system when they pick

1392
00:46:27,829 --> 00:46:25,119
up an object

1393
00:46:29,430 --> 00:46:27,839
it's going past or flying in space or at

1394
00:46:31,190 --> 00:46:29,440
least very high atmosphere what happens

1395
00:46:34,950 --> 00:46:31,200
is this

1396
00:46:36,630 --> 00:46:34,960
they within a half a second it's matched

1397
00:46:38,710 --> 00:46:36,640
they try and match it to an existing

1398
00:46:40,150 --> 00:46:38,720
object it's already tagged so if it's a

1399
00:46:41,430 --> 00:46:40,160
piece of space debris that's just going

1400
00:46:42,550 --> 00:46:41,440
round and round and round and round and

1401
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:42,560
round the earth and it's been going

1402
00:46:45,829 --> 00:46:43,200
around since

1403
00:46:47,349 --> 00:46:45,839
forever right it'll be immediately

1404
00:46:49,030 --> 00:46:47,359
matched like they actually expected to

1405
00:46:51,510 --> 00:46:49,040
come around like that you know the

1406
00:46:53,270 --> 00:46:51,520
the the telescope the military telescope

1407
00:46:55,430 --> 00:46:53,280
in hawaii is expecting

1408
00:46:56,630 --> 00:46:55,440
a piece of space debris to come past

1409
00:46:58,630 --> 00:46:56,640
three two one

1410
00:47:02,390 --> 00:46:58,640
yep there it is it's already been tagged

1411
00:47:05,270 --> 00:47:02,400
as object number 90627x2 or whatever

1412
00:47:06,870 --> 00:47:05,280
right and they see 40 000 of these a day

1413
00:47:07,510 --> 00:47:06,880
right it's just constant a constant

1414
00:47:10,550 --> 00:47:07,520
stream of

1415
00:47:11,990 --> 00:47:10,560
known objects right if an

1416
00:47:13,990 --> 00:47:12,000
object appears that's not in the

1417
00:47:15,030 --> 00:47:14,000
computer database it's immediately

1418
00:47:18,069 --> 00:47:15,040
tagged a uh

1419
00:47:20,069 --> 00:47:18,079
unknown object then the computers go

1420
00:47:21,109 --> 00:47:20,079
into overdrive and they alert the user

1421
00:47:22,710 --> 00:47:21,119
which would be

1422
00:47:24,549 --> 00:47:22,720
like like kind of like a space air

1423
00:47:28,309 --> 00:47:24,559
traffic controller or a technical

1424
00:47:30,230 --> 00:47:28,319
guy they alert him or her and they say

1425
00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:30,240
um they say right we've got a uo right

1426
00:47:34,309 --> 00:47:32,160
it's an unknown object right

1427
00:47:36,390 --> 00:47:34,319
and the computers really go into

1428
00:47:37,910 --> 00:47:36,400
overdrive and they work out what it's

1429
00:47:39,829 --> 00:47:37,920
how fast it's going it's orbital

1430
00:47:41,349 --> 00:47:39,839
parameters they use like kepler's law

1431
00:47:43,589 --> 00:47:41,359
and newtonian dynamics

1432
00:47:44,710 --> 00:47:43,599
and they work out you know they they

1433
00:47:46,390 --> 00:47:44,720
they do it they

1434
00:47:48,710 --> 00:47:46,400
they the computers work at how bright

1435
00:47:49,670 --> 00:47:48,720
the object is like how reflective it is

1436
00:47:53,430 --> 00:47:49,680
and so on

1437
00:47:55,829 --> 00:47:53,440
and if it looks if the computers decide

1438
00:47:57,109 --> 00:47:55,839
that it looks threatening so what they

1439
00:48:00,230 --> 00:47:57,119
call an nfl new

1440
00:48:02,790 --> 00:48:00,240
sorry nfl new foreign launch

1441
00:48:04,309 --> 00:48:02,800
like could be a new military satellite

1442
00:48:07,190 --> 00:48:04,319
could be a missile

1443
00:48:08,710 --> 00:48:07,200
it could be a stray missile it could be

1444
00:48:10,069 --> 00:48:08,720
unlikely but it could be an enormous

1445
00:48:12,470 --> 00:48:10,079
meteorite

1446
00:48:14,470 --> 00:48:12,480
if a uo is considered threatening like

1447
00:48:16,150 --> 00:48:14,480
coming towards a a friendly nation or

1448
00:48:17,030 --> 00:48:16,160
the united states or if it's coming

1449
00:48:19,430 --> 00:48:17,040
downwards

1450
00:48:21,349 --> 00:48:19,440
or if it's got the parameters of a cone

1451
00:48:24,069 --> 00:48:21,359
like missile warhead or whatever

1452
00:48:25,349 --> 00:48:24,079
it's called a critical uct or critical

1453
00:48:27,349 --> 00:48:25,359
uncorrelated target

1454
00:48:29,190 --> 00:48:27,359
that's how it's tagged in the system if

1455
00:48:30,150 --> 00:48:29,200
it's not particularly threatening maybe

1456
00:48:31,829 --> 00:48:30,160
very small

1457
00:48:33,589 --> 00:48:31,839
it's considered a significant

1458
00:48:35,829 --> 00:48:33,599
uncorrelated target

1459
00:48:37,670 --> 00:48:35,839
um there's also something called a false

1460
00:48:40,069 --> 00:48:37,680
uncorrelated target which is like a

1461
00:48:41,349 --> 00:48:40,079
computer glitch uh that so it's you know

1462
00:48:43,270 --> 00:48:41,359
like a like a

1463
00:48:44,870 --> 00:48:43,280
it could be a test or something the

1464
00:48:48,309 --> 00:48:44,880
point is is is that

1465
00:48:49,430 --> 00:48:48,319
every single critical uct or significant

1466
00:48:52,069 --> 00:48:49,440
uct

1467
00:48:54,309 --> 00:48:52,079
is part on to the next site so say they

1468
00:48:56,069 --> 00:48:54,319
see a critical uct going overhead

1469
00:48:57,510 --> 00:48:56,079
they think oh [\h__\h] this could be like a

1470
00:48:59,270 --> 00:48:57,520
north korean missile body

1471
00:49:00,630 --> 00:48:59,280
or it could be a piece of russian

1472
00:49:02,630 --> 00:49:00,640
satellite that's broken up into

1473
00:49:04,230 --> 00:49:02,640
different pieces and we're just seeing

1474
00:49:07,510 --> 00:49:04,240
the results of that breakup

1475
00:49:08,630 --> 00:49:07,520
right that site in say hawaii will alert

1476
00:49:11,109 --> 00:49:08,640
space track

1477
00:49:12,470 --> 00:49:11,119
in georgia and texas and then they'll

1478
00:49:16,230 --> 00:49:12,480
watch it go overhead

1479
00:49:17,990 --> 00:49:16,240
and then they'll alert the um the the

1480
00:49:19,430 --> 00:49:18,000
the system in spain and they'll watch it

1481
00:49:20,790 --> 00:49:19,440
go overhead and

1482
00:49:21,910 --> 00:49:20,800
quite quickly they'll work out where

1483
00:49:23,270 --> 00:49:21,920
this thing is going to land or if it's

1484
00:49:23,829 --> 00:49:23,280
going to nick off into space or if it's

1485
00:49:25,510 --> 00:49:23,839
breaking up

1486
00:49:27,270 --> 00:49:25,520
even more they actually do something

1487
00:49:30,309 --> 00:49:27,280
called a impact prediction

1488
00:49:31,510 --> 00:49:30,319
like an impact prediction service so to

1489
00:49:33,510 --> 00:49:31,520
work out exactly where it's going to

1490
00:49:36,710 --> 00:49:33,520
land if it is going to land

1491
00:49:38,309 --> 00:49:36,720
um so what we're looking for is

1492
00:49:41,030 --> 00:49:38,319
one of the holy grails i believe of

1493
00:49:44,549 --> 00:49:41,040
ufology is to get hold

1494
00:49:47,109 --> 00:49:44,559
of of masses of data

1495
00:49:47,990 --> 00:49:47,119
like databases and reports into and

1496
00:49:51,430 --> 00:49:48,000
studies into

1497
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:51,440
ucts uncorrelated targets you know

1498
00:49:55,829 --> 00:49:53,520
how many are there like they're always

1499
00:49:57,030 --> 00:49:55,839
classified secrets so any uncorrelated

1500
00:49:59,430 --> 00:49:57,040
target data

1501
00:50:01,190 --> 00:49:59,440
so that's like orbital parameters and

1502
00:50:02,790 --> 00:50:01,200
which detection side pick them up first

1503
00:50:04,309 --> 00:50:02,800
and which detect

1504
00:50:06,309 --> 00:50:04,319
detection site pick them up last

1505
00:50:07,910 --> 00:50:06,319
whatever all that's classified minimum

1506
00:50:08,309 --> 00:50:07,920
secret we've got that in writing we've

1507
00:50:10,470 --> 00:50:08,319
got

1508
00:50:11,510 --> 00:50:10,480
manuals from u.s strategic command and

1509
00:50:12,630 --> 00:50:11,520
air force space command which

1510
00:50:14,549 --> 00:50:12,640
specifically say

1511
00:50:16,710 --> 00:50:14,559
all critical and significant

1512
00:50:17,109 --> 00:50:16,720
uncorrelated targets are classified at

1513
00:50:20,950 --> 00:50:17,119
least

1514
00:50:22,470 --> 00:50:20,960
secret minimum right so the holy grail

1515
00:50:25,270 --> 00:50:22,480
would be to

1516
00:50:26,230 --> 00:50:25,280
have reams of data on uncorrelated

1517
00:50:27,910 --> 00:50:26,240
targets but

1518
00:50:29,910 --> 00:50:27,920
even more telling would be any

1519
00:50:33,030 --> 00:50:29,920
investigations studies

1520
00:50:34,150 --> 00:50:33,040
statistical studies point papers bullet

1521
00:50:36,630 --> 00:50:34,160
point papers

1522
00:50:38,710 --> 00:50:36,640
assessments done by commanders you know

1523
00:50:40,630 --> 00:50:38,720
like what happens if there's been a uct

1524
00:50:41,910 --> 00:50:40,640
that's or an uncorrelated target in

1525
00:50:43,990 --> 00:50:41,920
space that's done

1526
00:50:45,430 --> 00:50:44,000
you know loop-de-loops over kentucky and

1527
00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:45,440
they've watched it you know go this way

1528
00:50:47,510 --> 00:50:46,480
and then back this way

1529
00:50:49,510 --> 00:50:47,520
right and there's been you know a

1530
00:50:51,829 --> 00:50:49,520
50-page report that would be gold

1531
00:50:53,349 --> 00:50:51,839
like that would be incredible yeah it's

1532
00:50:55,990 --> 00:50:53,359
going to be highly classified

1533
00:50:57,829 --> 00:50:56,000
yeah highly classified but for how long

1534
00:51:00,230 --> 00:50:57,839
a lot of these classified things are

1535
00:51:02,230 --> 00:51:00,240
classified for so many years yeah they

1536
00:51:03,910 --> 00:51:02,240
go through downgrading and i mean

1537
00:51:05,750 --> 00:51:03,920
unfortunately unfortunately your

1538
00:51:08,950 --> 00:51:05,760
government has it has become

1539
00:51:11,589 --> 00:51:08,960
very i mean i'm looking i i actually

1540
00:51:13,750 --> 00:51:11,599
recently or a couple of years ago foi

1541
00:51:16,630 --> 00:51:13,760
the documents

1542
00:51:17,829 --> 00:51:16,640
uh it's it's the instruction manual it's

1543
00:51:24,549 --> 00:51:17,839
the

1544
00:51:27,670 --> 00:51:24,559
governance and guideline instruction

1545
00:51:30,549 --> 00:51:27,680
for uh the ballistic missile early war

1546
00:51:32,230 --> 00:51:30,559
your america's u.s air force's ballistic

1547
00:51:35,190 --> 00:51:32,240
missile early warning system

1548
00:51:36,790 --> 00:51:35,200
site three filing dale's england so it's

1549
00:51:39,589 --> 00:51:36,800
this it's a huge manual

1550
00:51:41,190 --> 00:51:39,599
it's this it's huge booklet right and

1551
00:51:44,470 --> 00:51:41,200
it's got the longest name

1552
00:51:47,510 --> 00:51:44,480
it's like it's like um you know spa

1553
00:51:48,390 --> 00:51:47,520
i think it's uh i think it's um you are

1554
00:51:52,549 --> 00:51:48,400
something like you

1555
00:51:55,430 --> 00:51:52,559
are 55-5 g1

1556
00:51:55,990 --> 00:51:55,440
you know us air force slash royal air

1557
00:51:58,150 --> 00:51:56,000
force

1558
00:51:59,829 --> 00:51:58,160
ballistic missile early warning system

1559
00:52:02,150 --> 00:51:59,839
operating manual site 3

1560
00:52:02,950 --> 00:52:02,160
england classified s secret whatever

1561
00:52:05,750 --> 00:52:02,960
right it's huge

1562
00:52:07,430 --> 00:52:05,760
anyway this document this document

1563
00:52:11,109 --> 00:52:07,440
there's there's multiple versions of it

1564
00:52:14,309 --> 00:52:11,119
the first version was published in 1989

1565
00:52:16,390 --> 00:52:14,319
the next version was published in 1992

1566
00:52:17,910 --> 00:52:16,400
and then there's a 1997 version of the

1567
00:52:19,030 --> 00:52:17,920
document so we're still talking a very

1568
00:52:21,030 --> 00:52:19,040
long time ago

1569
00:52:22,309 --> 00:52:21,040
i've asked the british government for a

1570
00:52:24,069 --> 00:52:22,319
copy because

1571
00:52:25,510 --> 00:52:24,079
uh i'm sick of talking to the united

1572
00:52:26,150 --> 00:52:25,520
states air force at the moment but i've

1573
00:52:27,670 --> 00:52:26,160
asked

1574
00:52:29,349 --> 00:52:27,680
britain for a copy even though it's an

1575
00:52:30,390 --> 00:52:29,359
american document i've asked britain for

1576
00:52:32,950 --> 00:52:30,400
a copy because they

1577
00:52:34,150 --> 00:52:32,960
run the farlingdales site in england

1578
00:52:37,109 --> 00:52:34,160
i've asked them for a copy

1579
00:52:38,630 --> 00:52:37,119
absolutely not they they pulled and

1580
00:52:41,270 --> 00:52:38,640
maybe rightfully so they pulled

1581
00:52:41,750 --> 00:52:41,280
national security classification like

1582
00:52:46,150 --> 00:52:41,760
national

1583
00:52:48,230 --> 00:52:46,160
treaties exemption on and on and on and

1584
00:52:49,510 --> 00:52:48,240
um and and this this document

1585
00:52:51,349 --> 00:52:49,520
interestingly

1586
00:52:53,190 --> 00:52:51,359
this document the only reason we know

1587
00:52:54,069 --> 00:52:53,200
this document actually exists is because

1588
00:52:58,230 --> 00:52:54,079
of a

1589
00:52:59,910 --> 00:52:58,240
researcher back in the 90s

1590
00:53:02,230 --> 00:52:59,920
you might have some listeners might have

1591
00:53:04,230 --> 00:53:02,240
heard of a bit of an oddball

1592
00:53:06,790 --> 00:53:04,240
researcher by the name of dr armand

1593
00:53:08,150 --> 00:53:06,800
victorian

1594
00:53:10,950 --> 00:53:08,160
yeah a lot of people haven't heard of

1595
00:53:12,950 --> 00:53:10,960
him a lot have um almond victorian was

1596
00:53:15,030 --> 00:53:12,960
an iranian national that was living in

1597
00:53:15,589 --> 00:53:15,040
england in the 80s and 90s he's vanished

1598
00:53:17,750 --> 00:53:15,599
now

1599
00:53:18,630 --> 00:53:17,760
and he submitted a huge number of foi

1600
00:53:20,549 --> 00:53:18,640
requests and

1601
00:53:22,790 --> 00:53:20,559
and very pointed letters to various

1602
00:53:25,270 --> 00:53:22,800
governments and he did really well

1603
00:53:25,990 --> 00:53:25,280
and he was the one that actually first

1604
00:53:28,470 --> 00:53:26,000
uh

1605
00:53:29,829 --> 00:53:28,480
started studying uncorrelated targets or

1606
00:53:31,030 --> 00:53:29,839
being picked up by places like

1607
00:53:34,470 --> 00:53:31,040
farlingdales

1608
00:53:36,069 --> 00:53:34,480
and and and yeah and so but

1609
00:53:37,829 --> 00:53:36,079
this is the sort of stuff i work on and

1610
00:53:39,589 --> 00:53:37,839
nobody else's very few people

1611
00:53:40,870 --> 00:53:39,599
do it you know there's very few people

1612
00:53:43,349 --> 00:53:40,880
that study this

1613
00:53:45,109 --> 00:53:43,359
i bet i bet uh we're about ready to go

1614
00:53:46,950 --> 00:53:45,119
into break uh we can actually go into

1615
00:53:49,910 --> 00:53:46,960
now but before i go in

1616
00:53:50,790 --> 00:53:49,920
someone posted this question here um and

1617
00:53:52,630 --> 00:53:50,800
stephen

1618
00:53:53,990 --> 00:53:52,640
and can you comment on the knowles

1619
00:53:56,390 --> 00:53:54,000
family ufo encounter

1620
00:53:57,670 --> 00:53:56,400
yeah yeah yeah um and i don't know if

1621
00:53:59,349 --> 00:53:57,680
you know enough time we only have a

1622
00:54:02,710 --> 00:53:59,359
minute or so here um

1623
00:54:05,030 --> 00:54:02,720
yeah to be honest with you um i

1624
00:54:06,950 --> 00:54:05,040
i don't like it i i can tell you this

1625
00:54:08,950 --> 00:54:06,960
for a fact it was wildly exaggerated

1626
00:54:09,990 --> 00:54:08,960
right the media that the witnesses

1627
00:54:11,510 --> 00:54:10,000
exaggerated and the media

1628
00:54:13,829 --> 00:54:11,520
exaggerated it further that much i can

1629
00:54:14,950 --> 00:54:13,839
tell you but it is interesting guys no

1630
00:54:17,750 --> 00:54:14,960
question about it

1631
00:54:19,190 --> 00:54:17,760
and uh yeah well well on the other side

1632
00:54:20,710 --> 00:54:19,200
i'm going to have to ask you the details

1633
00:54:23,510 --> 00:54:20,720
on the other side of the break

1634
00:54:24,309 --> 00:54:23,520
but anyway uh so uh hang in there we'll

1635
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:24,319
be right back

1636
00:54:41,170 --> 00:54:54,950
[Music]

1637
00:54:58,549 --> 00:54:57,109
all right welcome back my guest tonight

1638
00:55:00,230 --> 00:54:58,559
is paul dean

1639
00:55:02,470 --> 00:55:00,240
and uh right before we went into break

1640
00:55:05,589 --> 00:55:02,480
we were talking about the knowles family

1641
00:55:06,950 --> 00:55:05,599
uh ufo event you say it was wildly

1642
00:55:08,630 --> 00:55:06,960
exaggerated what

1643
00:55:09,990 --> 00:55:08,640
what is the story of that let's just

1644
00:55:13,190 --> 00:55:10,000
hear what um

1645
00:55:16,390 --> 00:55:13,200
purportedly happened well the claim well

1646
00:55:17,829 --> 00:55:16,400
uh so australia's big place um so right

1647
00:55:20,950 --> 00:55:17,839
over on the other side of the country

1648
00:55:22,230 --> 00:55:20,960
there's a city called perth um and when

1649
00:55:25,829 --> 00:55:22,240
you drive

1650
00:55:27,589 --> 00:55:25,839
like it's

1651
00:55:29,910 --> 00:55:27,599
it once you get through a few towns

1652
00:55:31,510 --> 00:55:29,920
you're driving for three days

1653
00:55:33,430 --> 00:55:31,520
without seeing a single you might see

1654
00:55:34,150 --> 00:55:33,440
the odd town but it's in the middle of

1655
00:55:36,710 --> 00:55:34,160
nowhere it's

1656
00:55:38,710 --> 00:55:36,720
it's it's ridiculous how it's like yeah

1657
00:55:41,349 --> 00:55:38,720
it's nothing comparable maybe

1658
00:55:43,349 --> 00:55:41,359
yeah nothing comparable i don't think um

1659
00:55:46,309 --> 00:55:43,359
and back in 1988

1660
00:55:48,390 --> 00:55:46,319
um i can't remember the date uh it was

1661
00:55:51,430 --> 00:55:48,400
1988 a family

1662
00:55:53,430 --> 00:55:51,440
a family were driving a car

1663
00:55:54,870 --> 00:55:53,440
from perth to adelaide which is a

1664
00:55:57,030 --> 00:55:54,880
three-day maybe look

1665
00:55:57,910 --> 00:55:57,040
if you drive really fast it might be a

1666
00:56:01,190 --> 00:55:57,920
two-day drive

1667
00:56:04,230 --> 00:56:01,200
of nothing and it was night time

1668
00:56:06,390 --> 00:56:04,240
and but the family the drop so there was

1669
00:56:07,990 --> 00:56:06,400
three people oh it was either three or

1670
00:56:10,309 --> 00:56:08,000
four people in the car all from the same

1671
00:56:12,789 --> 00:56:10,319
family i haven't studied it for 20 years

1672
00:56:14,150 --> 00:56:12,799
but um there was three i think four

1673
00:56:17,589 --> 00:56:14,160
people in the car

1674
00:56:20,710 --> 00:56:17,599
and it was an old was an old car um

1675
00:56:22,789 --> 00:56:20,720
and they they saw up ahead of them

1676
00:56:23,829 --> 00:56:22,799
they saw what looked like like a bright

1677
00:56:30,630 --> 00:56:23,839
light

1678
00:56:33,990 --> 00:56:30,640
they claimed something airborne um

1679
00:56:36,870 --> 00:56:34,000
they it interacted with their vehicle

1680
00:56:37,750 --> 00:56:36,880
so they the claim was that it pulled

1681
00:56:39,829 --> 00:56:37,760
their vehicle

1682
00:56:42,150 --> 00:56:39,839
up like it physically lifted their car

1683
00:56:44,789 --> 00:56:42,160
off the road so the ufos above them

1684
00:56:45,589 --> 00:56:44,799
had physically pulled their car up into

1685
00:56:47,990 --> 00:56:45,599
the air

1686
00:56:49,030 --> 00:56:48,000
so you know at 60 miles an hour or a bit

1687
00:56:51,670 --> 00:56:49,040
less

1688
00:56:52,870 --> 00:56:51,680
and then it just dumped it right dumped

1689
00:56:55,670 --> 00:56:52,880
it back on the road

1690
00:56:57,270 --> 00:56:55,680
so terrifying if true and of course they

1691
00:56:58,630 --> 00:56:57,280
crashed i mean you wouldn't just keep

1692
00:56:59,910 --> 00:56:58,640
driving i mean they they came to a

1693
00:57:01,349 --> 00:56:59,920
screeching halt i think

1694
00:57:03,510 --> 00:57:01,359
and and they ended up on the side of the

1695
00:57:04,549 --> 00:57:03,520
road they had a blown tire that much is

1696
00:57:07,829 --> 00:57:04,559
true

1697
00:57:12,710 --> 00:57:07,839
um at the same time

1698
00:57:14,390 --> 00:57:12,720
um the the the rumor at the time was

1699
00:57:16,069 --> 00:57:14,400
uh that there were other witnesses to it

1700
00:57:16,950 --> 00:57:16,079
not the actual lifting the car off the

1701
00:57:20,870 --> 00:57:16,960
ground path but the

1702
00:57:22,789 --> 00:57:20,880
witnesses to the ufo ufos in the area at

1703
00:57:25,270 --> 00:57:22,799
the time like that night

1704
00:57:26,309 --> 00:57:25,280
anyway the the the family pulled into a

1705
00:57:29,190 --> 00:57:26,319
town i think it was

1706
00:57:30,309 --> 00:57:29,200
ajuna or something like that they they

1707
00:57:32,390 --> 00:57:30,319
pulled into a town

1708
00:57:33,910 --> 00:57:32,400
and they started talking about it like

1709
00:57:34,950 --> 00:57:33,920
to petrol station people and something

1710
00:57:37,670 --> 00:57:34,960
like that

1711
00:57:38,549 --> 00:57:37,680
um gas station i think you call it um

1712
00:57:40,630 --> 00:57:38,559
and

1713
00:57:42,390 --> 00:57:40,640
the it must have been a slow news week

1714
00:57:43,750 --> 00:57:42,400
because the the media got hold of it

1715
00:57:47,510 --> 00:57:43,760
very quickly

1716
00:57:49,349 --> 00:57:47,520
and they the media um the media really

1717
00:57:53,109 --> 00:57:49,359
turned it into a bit of a circus

1718
00:57:55,910 --> 00:57:53,119
and the the media were as usual

1719
00:57:57,190 --> 00:57:55,920
really came to get the salacious details

1720
00:57:59,190 --> 00:57:57,200
not anything else you know how long have

1721
00:58:00,309 --> 00:57:59,200
they been driving had they been drinking

1722
00:58:02,390 --> 00:58:00,319
you know all this sort of stuff there

1723
00:58:03,349 --> 00:58:02,400
was no proper remotely improper

1724
00:58:05,750 --> 00:58:03,359
investigation

1725
00:58:07,430 --> 00:58:05,760
no one know what the you know the vast

1726
00:58:09,030 --> 00:58:07,440
majority of the press were not in any

1727
00:58:11,190 --> 00:58:09,040
way interested in starting the actual

1728
00:58:13,670 --> 00:58:11,200
car they needed the story that night

1729
00:58:14,309 --> 00:58:13,680
right so that that polluted the case a

1730
00:58:16,950 --> 00:58:14,319
bit

1731
00:58:17,990 --> 00:58:16,960
now over the years people have

1732
00:58:22,470 --> 00:58:18,000
investigated well

1733
00:58:25,750 --> 00:58:22,480
one thing that did come out was um

1734
00:58:27,349 --> 00:58:25,760
the the car the car was covered in all

1735
00:58:28,710 --> 00:58:27,359
parts of the car were covered in a very

1736
00:58:32,390 --> 00:58:28,720
very fine dust

1737
00:58:35,030 --> 00:58:32,400
unusual in the desert and one

1738
00:58:37,750 --> 00:58:35,040
claim by a victorian researcher by the

1739
00:58:41,670 --> 00:58:37,760
name of john ocatel one claim was that

1740
00:58:43,510 --> 00:58:41,680
this dust had a radioactive

1741
00:58:44,950 --> 00:58:43,520
element in it i think he claimed it was

1742
00:58:46,630 --> 00:58:44,960
americanium

1743
00:58:48,549 --> 00:58:46,640
which is really rare i mean you'll find

1744
00:58:51,670 --> 00:58:48,559
american in a nuclear reactor

1745
00:58:52,950 --> 00:58:51,680
maybe um but that was the claim will

1746
00:58:54,630 --> 00:58:52,960
turn out wasn't true

1747
00:58:56,230 --> 00:58:54,640
the the there was there was actually i

1748
00:58:56,710 --> 00:58:56,240
think there was three samples of dust

1749
00:59:00,309 --> 00:58:56,720
taken

1750
00:59:02,069 --> 00:59:00,319
john ocatel's uh john ocatel's dust

1751
00:59:03,670 --> 00:59:02,079
apparently contained americana but he

1752
00:59:05,589 --> 00:59:03,680
wouldn't answer any more questions like

1753
00:59:07,430 --> 00:59:05,599
who analyzed it can we see the results

1754
00:59:08,950 --> 00:59:07,440
can we see the conclusions the

1755
00:59:10,630 --> 00:59:08,960
whatever the other two samples

1756
00:59:11,829 --> 00:59:10,640
apparently nothing unusual is just brake

1757
00:59:14,950 --> 00:59:11,839
dust and desert dust

1758
00:59:16,470 --> 00:59:14,960
calcium and so on so there's a bunch of

1759
00:59:18,069 --> 00:59:16,480
those sort of stories where there's all

1760
00:59:19,829 --> 00:59:18,079
these dead ends where you look at the

1761
00:59:21,430 --> 00:59:19,839
case and on paper it looks really

1762
00:59:23,990 --> 00:59:21,440
shocking and good and whatever

1763
00:59:25,430 --> 00:59:24,000
but it turns out that in hindsight there

1764
00:59:26,230 --> 00:59:25,440
was a lot of claims that were made that

1765
00:59:29,589 --> 00:59:26,240
just don't

1766
00:59:31,589 --> 00:59:29,599
claims that there was other witnesses

1767
00:59:33,829 --> 00:59:31,599
they never came forward there was claims

1768
00:59:34,710 --> 00:59:33,839
that um what else was there uh there was

1769
00:59:36,470 --> 00:59:34,720
claims that

1770
00:59:37,750 --> 00:59:36,480
it was seen off the coast like towards

1771
00:59:39,030 --> 00:59:37,760
the beach and into the ocean by

1772
00:59:40,630 --> 00:59:39,040
fishermen

1773
00:59:42,309 --> 00:59:40,640
apparently no such thing happened or if

1774
00:59:43,589 --> 00:59:42,319
it did it was so minor it looked like a

1775
00:59:43,910 --> 00:59:43,599
star moving around or something like

1776
00:59:46,390 --> 00:59:43,920
that

1777
00:59:47,990 --> 00:59:46,400
we don't know like like is it possible i

1778
00:59:48,549 --> 00:59:48,000
mean i'm cynical enough to say is it

1779
00:59:51,190 --> 00:59:48,559
possible

1780
00:59:52,230 --> 00:59:51,200
that the family did actually see a ufo

1781
00:59:54,630 --> 00:59:52,240
had a crash

1782
00:59:55,750 --> 00:59:54,640
and then embellished the story to the

1783
00:59:57,109 --> 00:59:55,760
point where the car was actually

1784
00:59:58,470 --> 00:59:57,119
physically lifted off the ground and

1785
01:00:00,870 --> 00:59:58,480
chucked back down again

1786
01:00:01,750 --> 01:00:00,880
like it's a big claim it's a big claim

1787
01:00:03,750 --> 01:00:01,760
yeah yeah

1788
01:00:04,950 --> 01:00:03,760
there's there's one uh i think it was in

1789
01:00:07,030 --> 01:00:04,960
new hampshire

1790
01:00:08,230 --> 01:00:07,040
sort of the same claim uh there was a

1791
01:00:10,630 --> 01:00:08,240
young couple

1792
01:00:11,910 --> 01:00:10,640
and their the car was all messed up and

1793
01:00:14,230 --> 01:00:11,920
everything underneath

1794
01:00:15,510 --> 01:00:14,240
but who knows uh if that story had any

1795
01:00:18,309 --> 01:00:15,520
validity to it

1796
01:00:20,150 --> 01:00:18,319
now there was another case where a guy

1797
01:00:22,390 --> 01:00:20,160
was driving along a highway

1798
01:00:24,390 --> 01:00:22,400
something about lights coming and then

1799
01:00:25,430 --> 01:00:24,400
maybe later someone died at the same

1800
01:00:31,430 --> 01:00:25,440
location

1801
01:00:34,470 --> 01:00:32,950
yeah can you talk about that one because

1802
01:00:35,589 --> 01:00:34,480
i always always thought that was

1803
01:00:40,710 --> 01:00:35,599
fabulous

1804
01:00:46,710 --> 01:00:44,470
so march or april 1966

1805
01:00:47,589 --> 01:00:46,720
um my state so down south east of the

1806
01:00:50,470 --> 01:00:47,599
country

1807
01:00:51,430 --> 01:00:50,480
um the the witness's name i'm just

1808
01:00:53,510 --> 01:00:51,440
trying to think of his name

1809
01:00:54,950 --> 01:00:53,520
um i've actually met him he actually

1810
01:00:58,710 --> 01:00:54,960
recently passed away

1811
01:01:02,390 --> 01:01:00,069
i can't remember the witness's name

1812
01:01:05,030 --> 01:01:02,400
it'll come to me but he was again

1813
01:01:07,510 --> 01:01:05,040
unfortunately a single witness case like

1814
01:01:10,710 --> 01:01:07,520
a lot of these ones are at night in cars

1815
01:01:13,270 --> 01:01:10,720
he was driving through fairly windy

1816
01:01:14,710 --> 01:01:13,280
roads in the countryside so in rural you

1817
01:01:17,750 --> 01:01:14,720
call it in the woods

1818
01:01:19,190 --> 01:01:17,760
um he's driving along yeah at night

1819
01:01:21,190 --> 01:01:19,200
not particularly late i think it was

1820
01:01:22,789 --> 01:01:21,200
sort of maybe 9 30 at night it wasn't

1821
01:01:24,390 --> 01:01:22,799
three in the morning or anything

1822
01:01:26,390 --> 01:01:24,400
and he was familiar with the roads he

1823
01:01:29,349 --> 01:01:26,400
was familiar enough with his car

1824
01:01:30,069 --> 01:01:29,359
um and he's he's driving along on a

1825
01:01:32,150 --> 01:01:30,079
reasonable

1826
01:01:33,510 --> 01:01:32,160
reasonably long drive um it wasn't a

1827
01:01:34,870 --> 01:01:33,520
sort of thing around the corner

1828
01:01:36,870 --> 01:01:34,880
like driving around the corner like for

1829
01:01:38,789 --> 01:01:36,880
one minute it was a decent drive

1830
01:01:40,069 --> 01:01:38,799
and he swears absolutely he swears black

1831
01:01:41,589 --> 01:01:40,079
and blue at the time and

1832
01:01:43,430 --> 01:01:41,599
all his life he swears this is what

1833
01:01:45,190 --> 01:01:43,440
happened

1834
01:01:47,990 --> 01:01:45,200
driving along and on the side of the

1835
01:01:49,589 --> 01:01:48,000
road well into the trees and into grass

1836
01:01:52,150 --> 01:01:49,599
he said there was almost like a

1837
01:01:54,950 --> 01:01:52,160
cylindrical like a cylindrical

1838
01:01:56,549 --> 01:01:54,960
ufo almost like more like an apparition

1839
01:01:58,789 --> 01:01:56,559
maybe not necessarily

1840
01:02:00,549 --> 01:01:58,799
like a fully structured craft like you

1841
01:02:01,510 --> 01:02:00,559
think with antennas and flames and

1842
01:02:03,270 --> 01:02:01,520
whatever he

1843
01:02:05,349 --> 01:02:03,280
more like something more like slightly

1844
01:02:06,710 --> 01:02:05,359
leaning towards more of a phenomena than

1845
01:02:09,990 --> 01:02:06,720
an actual

1846
01:02:11,589 --> 01:02:10,000
structured you know device maybe um

1847
01:02:13,109 --> 01:02:11,599
again i haven't studied this for 10

1848
01:02:15,430 --> 01:02:13,119
years at least but what was

1849
01:02:16,789 --> 01:02:15,440
really bizarre about this case is that

1850
01:02:17,910 --> 01:02:16,799
he swears black and blue because

1851
01:02:20,390 --> 01:02:17,920
normally your headlights

1852
01:02:21,589 --> 01:02:20,400
point out straight he says as he's

1853
01:02:25,109 --> 01:02:21,599
watching this

1854
01:02:26,789 --> 01:02:25,119
ufo like just sitting on the ground but

1855
01:02:27,109 --> 01:02:26,799
sort of like a pipe like cylindrical

1856
01:02:30,390 --> 01:02:27,119
with

1857
01:02:33,270 --> 01:02:30,400
it was bright blue i think he swears

1858
01:02:34,390 --> 01:02:33,280
swears to god that his headlights bent

1859
01:02:36,230 --> 01:02:34,400
towards it

1860
01:02:38,150 --> 01:02:36,240
so imagine you're driving along that's

1861
01:02:39,430 --> 01:02:38,160
what i remember yeah yeah and your head

1862
01:02:40,789 --> 01:02:39,440
so not only are you seeing something

1863
01:02:42,470 --> 01:02:40,799
you've never seen before

1864
01:02:43,510 --> 01:02:42,480
right like never seen anything like it

1865
01:02:44,870 --> 01:02:43,520
in your life and it should be there

1866
01:02:46,549 --> 01:02:44,880
should be nothing out there no flood

1867
01:02:48,789 --> 01:02:46,559
lights no farmers no tractor

1868
01:02:50,150 --> 01:02:48,799
operating no fire no bushfire wildfire

1869
01:02:52,230 --> 01:02:50,160
whatever like this was

1870
01:02:53,430 --> 01:02:52,240
this was not accountable by any of those

1871
01:02:55,270 --> 01:02:53,440
things um

1872
01:02:57,270 --> 01:02:55,280
he the way he described it at the time

1873
01:02:59,029 --> 01:02:57,280
and even before he died and over the

1874
01:03:00,789 --> 01:02:59,039
years it hasn't changed i do believe

1875
01:03:03,349 --> 01:03:00,799
something definitely happened it was

1876
01:03:05,190 --> 01:03:03,359
again single witness case dr heineck

1877
01:03:06,230 --> 01:03:05,200
would say to us a single witness case is

1878
01:03:10,390 --> 01:03:06,240
no case at all

1879
01:03:11,430 --> 01:03:10,400
right but i mean this guy as far as high

1880
01:03:14,150 --> 01:03:11,440
strangeness

1881
01:03:15,430 --> 01:03:14,160
in a case the the driver's headlights

1882
01:03:17,750 --> 01:03:15,440
bend to the side

1883
01:03:18,710 --> 01:03:17,760
he says i mean you wonder can you even

1884
01:03:20,789 --> 01:03:18,720
make this stuff up

1885
01:03:22,150 --> 01:03:20,799
like that's really strange that's a real

1886
01:03:24,630 --> 01:03:22,160
physiological

1887
01:03:25,910 --> 01:03:24,640
that's like a that's like an emf effect

1888
01:03:27,670 --> 01:03:25,920
if i've ever seen one

1889
01:03:29,430 --> 01:03:27,680
yeah that's bizarre it just it would

1890
01:03:30,789 --> 01:03:29,440
have been the perfect case if only there

1891
01:03:31,910 --> 01:03:30,799
was a whole bunch of other witnesses but

1892
01:03:34,789 --> 01:03:31,920
what was weird

1893
01:03:35,109 --> 01:03:34,799
is the very next day or it might have

1894
01:03:37,430 --> 01:03:35,119
been

1895
01:03:38,870 --> 01:03:37,440
you know it was it was either just

1896
01:03:42,150 --> 01:03:38,880
before this or just

1897
01:03:44,309 --> 01:03:42,160
after in exactly the same spot a car had

1898
01:03:47,190 --> 01:03:44,319
come off the road and killed the driver

1899
01:03:48,069 --> 01:03:47,200
so the implication is is did that driver

1900
01:03:51,349 --> 01:03:48,079
who died

1901
01:03:52,789 --> 01:03:51,359
did he slash she also see the object and

1902
01:03:54,710 --> 01:03:52,799
scared the hell out of them so much they

1903
01:03:55,510 --> 01:03:54,720
actually crashed their car and died the

1904
01:03:57,910 --> 01:03:55,520
police yeah

1905
01:03:59,910 --> 01:03:57,920
yeah that's the implication the other

1906
01:04:01,589 --> 01:03:59,920
thing is if you go out to the site and

1907
01:04:03,190 --> 01:04:01,599
the police did and various i think it

1908
01:04:04,230 --> 01:04:03,200
was a newspaper people went out to the

1909
01:04:05,990 --> 01:04:04,240
site where

1910
01:04:07,270 --> 01:04:06,000
the witness had seen this ufo and his

1911
01:04:08,789 --> 01:04:07,280
headlights are bending right

1912
01:04:10,710 --> 01:04:08,799
and there's nothing there like there was

1913
01:04:11,990 --> 01:04:10,720
no burn marks there was no dead animals

1914
01:04:14,710 --> 01:04:12,000
there was no radiological

1915
01:04:15,510 --> 01:04:14,720
effects there was no um scarred turf

1916
01:04:18,950 --> 01:04:15,520
there was no

1917
01:04:19,990 --> 01:04:18,960
i think other farmers were asked

1918
01:04:20,710 --> 01:04:20,000
questions everyone just shrugged their

1919
01:04:23,910 --> 01:04:20,720
shoulders

1920
01:04:24,630 --> 01:04:23,920
so yeah really weird i mentioned this

1921
01:04:27,349 --> 01:04:24,640
before i

1922
01:04:27,910 --> 01:04:27,359
i kind of like the weird cases the ones

1923
01:04:29,990 --> 01:04:27,920
that

1924
01:04:31,510 --> 01:04:30,000
are would be almost impossible to make

1925
01:04:34,470 --> 01:04:31,520
up and this is

1926
01:04:36,549 --> 01:04:34,480
this is kind of one of those yeah yeah

1927
01:04:37,589 --> 01:04:36,559
there's a lot i mean socorro new mexico

1928
01:04:39,670 --> 01:04:37,599
is the most

1929
01:04:41,190 --> 01:04:39,680
famous because you're dealing with quite

1930
01:04:44,470 --> 01:04:41,200
clearly a device

1931
01:04:45,270 --> 01:04:44,480
with doors and insignia and appendages

1932
01:04:49,109 --> 01:04:45,280
and whatever

1933
01:04:50,789 --> 01:04:49,119
by an incredibly reputable witness um

1934
01:04:52,789 --> 01:04:50,799
that's got to be sold if that can be

1935
01:04:55,990 --> 01:04:52,799
solved either way

1936
01:04:58,390 --> 01:04:56,000
like yeah uh there i don't know if you

1937
01:05:01,750 --> 01:04:58,400
ever heard the name ben moss

1938
01:05:02,069 --> 01:05:01,760
yeah he's a like a uh writer or journal

1939
01:05:11,990 --> 01:05:02,079
a

1940
01:05:14,309 --> 01:05:12,000
the first book on uh socorro

1941
01:05:15,349 --> 01:05:14,319
uh and the panic what's that called

1942
01:05:18,069 --> 01:05:15,359
saucer in the

1943
01:05:19,589 --> 01:05:18,079
sword it's called um sort of a sorcerer

1944
01:05:20,630 --> 01:05:19,599
in the pentagon fraser what is it i

1945
01:05:23,190 --> 01:05:20,640
should i know all the books

1946
01:05:24,549 --> 01:05:23,200
by heart um pantry or something yeah

1947
01:05:27,510 --> 01:05:24,559
pentagon pantry uh

1948
01:05:28,870 --> 01:05:27,520
uh yeah sorcery uh uh silent source from

1949
01:05:30,069 --> 01:05:28,880
the pentagon pantry or something like

1950
01:05:33,270 --> 01:05:30,079
that yeah

1951
01:05:36,870 --> 01:05:33,280
anyway um so rey has helped has helped

1952
01:05:39,349 --> 01:05:36,880
ben you know along uh no i helped ben

1953
01:05:40,789 --> 01:05:39,359
got oh i've got this oh really you're

1954
01:05:42,630 --> 01:05:40,799
helping ben too

1955
01:05:45,190 --> 01:05:42,640
yeah i've got i've got massive post

1956
01:05:47,109 --> 01:05:45,200
files and ben came to me

1957
01:05:48,309 --> 01:05:47,119
well like i think i heard i think i

1958
01:05:49,430 --> 01:05:48,319
offered you so

1959
01:05:51,270 --> 01:05:49,440
something i don't know a couple years

1960
01:05:51,990 --> 01:05:51,280
ago and i gave him my case files on

1961
01:05:54,069 --> 01:05:52,000
socorro

1962
01:05:55,430 --> 01:05:54,079
so i've got michael's the researcher

1963
01:05:57,510 --> 01:05:55,440
michael michael

1964
01:05:59,829 --> 01:05:57,520
swords's case file on socorro which is

1965
01:06:01,829 --> 01:05:59,839
huge and barry green with the great

1966
01:06:03,910 --> 01:06:01,839
boston archivist no one's got a bigger

1967
01:06:05,510 --> 01:06:03,920
personal collection of ufo case material

1968
01:06:06,309 --> 01:06:05,520
and general material in barry greenwood

1969
01:06:11,109 --> 01:06:06,319
it is

1970
01:06:12,630 --> 01:06:11,119
rooms completely piled to the ceiling no

1971
01:06:14,230 --> 01:06:12,640
four we're up to now

1972
01:06:15,910 --> 01:06:14,240
um and he's just his house is just

1973
01:06:18,470 --> 01:06:15,920
groaning under the white literally

1974
01:06:19,990 --> 01:06:18,480
um so yeah it's bad it's it's real bad

1975
01:06:20,549 --> 01:06:20,000
and he's getting more stuff arise every

1976
01:06:23,510 --> 01:06:20,559
day but

1977
01:06:24,789 --> 01:06:23,520
um so barry's fire well i generated

1978
01:06:26,390 --> 01:06:24,799
sakura material

1979
01:06:28,150 --> 01:06:26,400
but mine was nothing to compare to

1980
01:06:29,750 --> 01:06:28,160
michael swords and nightcaps

1981
01:06:32,309 --> 01:06:29,760
and fran ridges and particularly barry's

1982
01:06:33,829 --> 01:06:32,319
so i remember when i helped i gave ben

1983
01:06:34,950 --> 01:06:33,839
some material he was very grateful

1984
01:06:35,829 --> 01:06:34,960
because a lot of stuff in there that's

1985
01:06:37,750 --> 01:06:35,839
very original

1986
01:06:39,270 --> 01:06:37,760
like the very first letters the very

1987
01:06:39,829 --> 01:06:39,280
first maps of the area that sort of

1988
01:06:43,510 --> 01:06:39,839
thing

1989
01:06:45,589 --> 01:06:43,520
you know wow wow so he he has written

1990
01:06:48,549 --> 01:06:45,599
the book and as far as i know the book

1991
01:06:49,190 --> 01:06:48,559
um he sent me the transcript so um i'm

1992
01:06:50,390 --> 01:06:49,200
gonna be

1993
01:06:52,870 --> 01:06:50,400
reading through that but i'm gonna

1994
01:06:55,670 --> 01:06:52,880
invite him on and uh

1995
01:06:56,390 --> 01:06:55,680
and uh possibly even our next tuesday

1996
01:06:59,910 --> 01:06:56,400
show

1997
01:07:01,829 --> 01:06:59,920
i'll uh i'll try to confirm that but uh

1998
01:07:04,950 --> 01:07:01,839
so i know we've taken kind of a

1999
01:07:06,470 --> 01:07:04,960
jag from a lot of the documents but i i

2000
01:07:07,430 --> 01:07:06,480
remember when you and i first started

2001
01:07:10,069 --> 01:07:07,440
talking

2002
01:07:12,309 --> 01:07:10,079
um you you kind of touched on the

2003
01:07:16,230 --> 01:07:12,319
ballistic missile early warning system

2004
01:07:19,990 --> 01:07:16,240
b m w uh you touched on that a bit

2005
01:07:22,390 --> 01:07:20,000
um and uh you went over what

2006
01:07:23,190 --> 01:07:22,400
would be great if you could actually

2007
01:07:25,670 --> 01:07:23,200
find

2008
01:07:27,029 --> 01:07:25,680
um those i forget what you call them not

2009
01:07:30,470 --> 01:07:27,039
unidentified but you

2010
01:07:31,029 --> 01:07:30,480
you what uncorrelated will will will win

2011
01:07:32,789 --> 01:07:31,039
when the

2012
01:07:34,870 --> 01:07:32,799
so the ballistic missile early warning

2013
01:07:37,190 --> 01:07:34,880
system its primary

2014
01:07:38,470 --> 01:07:37,200
mission so there's a it's a series of

2015
01:07:40,390 --> 01:07:38,480
three radar sites

2016
01:07:41,670 --> 01:07:40,400
massive the biggest most powerful radars

2017
01:07:44,950 --> 01:07:41,680
in the world

2018
01:07:47,349 --> 01:07:44,960
and there's one site in greenland

2019
01:07:48,230 --> 01:07:47,359
there's one site in alaska and the third

2020
01:07:50,870 --> 01:07:48,240
site is

2021
01:07:52,470 --> 01:07:50,880
on the coast of england and all of them

2022
01:07:59,990 --> 01:07:52,480
look

2023
01:08:01,190 --> 01:08:00,000
and russian ballistic missile launchers

2024
01:08:04,309 --> 01:08:01,200
or submarines

2025
01:08:05,510 --> 01:08:04,319
like like land-based or or sea launch

2026
01:08:07,750 --> 01:08:05,520
ballistic missiles

2027
01:08:10,230 --> 01:08:07,760
that's their primary mission that's the

2028
01:08:12,950 --> 01:08:10,240
primary mission of these three sites is

2029
01:08:14,470 --> 01:08:12,960
is is missile warning like early missile

2030
01:08:15,430 --> 01:08:14,480
warning early missile detection and

2031
01:08:17,189 --> 01:08:15,440
warning

2032
01:08:20,390 --> 01:08:17,199
for north america and western europe's

2033
01:08:23,269 --> 01:08:20,400
defense right there's no point i mean

2034
01:08:24,789 --> 01:08:23,279
if you can know that the soviets all the

2035
01:08:25,910 --> 01:08:24,799
russians or the chinese from their

2036
01:08:29,590 --> 01:08:25,920
northern launch sites

2037
01:08:31,349 --> 01:08:29,600
have launched you know a a a salvo of

2038
01:08:32,870 --> 01:08:31,359
ballistic missiles and the computers are

2039
01:08:35,669 --> 01:08:32,880
telling you that they're coming for

2040
01:08:37,269 --> 01:08:35,679
canada and america um if you can get you

2041
01:08:38,550 --> 01:08:37,279
know 20 minutes warning on that before

2042
01:08:40,070 --> 01:08:38,560
they actually start landing all the

2043
01:08:41,430 --> 01:08:40,080
better so that's what these sites do

2044
01:08:43,030 --> 01:08:41,440
that's their primary mission

2045
01:08:45,349 --> 01:08:43,040
the secondary mission of the ballistic

2046
01:08:47,990 --> 01:08:45,359
missile early warning system sites

2047
01:08:49,749 --> 01:08:48,000
is general space surveillance so their

2048
01:08:52,630 --> 01:08:49,759
radars are so powerful

2049
01:08:53,910 --> 01:08:52,640
that they look out into low earth orbit

2050
01:08:57,269 --> 01:08:53,920
satellites like so

2051
01:08:59,030 --> 01:08:57,279
so the the sites watch

2052
01:09:00,470 --> 01:08:59,040
satellites and and space debris just

2053
01:09:01,829 --> 01:09:00,480
constantly going round and round and

2054
01:09:03,110 --> 01:09:01,839
round to earth and they

2055
01:09:05,430 --> 01:09:03,120
they're looking for new satellites

2056
01:09:06,309 --> 01:09:05,440
satellite breakups the odd meteorite

2057
01:09:09,349 --> 01:09:06,319
whatever

2058
01:09:11,590 --> 01:09:09,359
and so that's what these sites do and i

2059
01:09:13,510 --> 01:09:11,600
i realize with their capability and

2060
01:09:15,189 --> 01:09:13,520
range like i i'm thinking you know

2061
01:09:16,630 --> 01:09:15,199
there's so many systems actually have

2062
01:09:18,870 --> 01:09:16,640
limitations like

2063
01:09:20,870 --> 01:09:18,880
airports can only see a couple of

2064
01:09:24,149 --> 01:09:20,880
hundred k's around the radius

2065
01:09:25,990 --> 01:09:24,159
or diam or um you know diameter um

2066
01:09:27,430 --> 01:09:26,000
some radar systems only point in a very

2067
01:09:29,110 --> 01:09:27,440
very specific direction

2068
01:09:30,550 --> 01:09:29,120
some radar systems are turned off half

2069
01:09:32,470 --> 01:09:30,560
the time whatever but the ballistic

2070
01:09:35,430 --> 01:09:32,480
missile early warning system

2071
01:09:36,309 --> 01:09:35,440
at greenland alaska in england they are

2072
01:09:38,630 --> 01:09:36,319
almost

2073
01:09:39,430 --> 01:09:38,640
just the premier they should be the

2074
01:09:43,269 --> 01:09:39,440
premier

2075
01:09:45,669 --> 01:09:43,279
sites if ufos exist they would be

2076
01:09:47,349 --> 01:09:45,679
their data would be incredible and like

2077
01:09:48,070 --> 01:09:47,359
because they because i can say right out

2078
01:09:51,430 --> 01:09:48,080
into space

2079
01:09:53,510 --> 01:09:51,440
they should be able to pick up

2080
01:09:55,270 --> 01:09:53,520
absolutely everything well i mean i know

2081
01:09:57,110 --> 01:09:55,280
back in the 50s that they were able to

2082
01:10:00,070 --> 01:09:57,120
differentiate between

2083
01:10:02,310 --> 01:10:00,080
meteorites and missile payloads and and

2084
01:10:02,950 --> 01:10:02,320
early satellites and this is with 1950

2085
01:10:05,270 --> 01:10:02,960
software

2086
01:10:05,990 --> 01:10:05,280
so imagine what they can do now right it

2087
01:10:07,669 --> 01:10:06,000
must be a

2088
01:10:09,590 --> 01:10:07,679
three dimension they would have i would

2089
01:10:11,590 --> 01:10:09,600
i mean it's highly classified but their

2090
01:10:14,870 --> 01:10:11,600
capabilities would be incredible but

2091
01:10:15,910 --> 01:10:14,880
here's an interesting story i started

2092
01:10:18,070 --> 01:10:15,920
studying

2093
01:10:19,590 --> 01:10:18,080
of the three sites the most interesting

2094
01:10:21,110 --> 01:10:19,600
to me

2095
01:10:22,550 --> 01:10:21,120
of the three ballistic missile early

2096
01:10:23,430 --> 01:10:22,560
warning site here the most interesting

2097
01:10:25,910 --> 01:10:23,440
to me was

2098
01:10:27,990 --> 01:10:25,920
uh farlingdales in england it's it's

2099
01:10:31,110 --> 01:10:28,000
it's in yorkshire north yorkshire

2100
01:10:33,990 --> 01:10:31,120
um it's it's it it looks across

2101
01:10:34,950 --> 01:10:34,000
the um the sea towards denmark and

2102
01:10:38,310 --> 01:10:34,960
belgium

2103
01:10:39,669 --> 01:10:38,320
whatever and um it's its capabilities

2104
01:10:41,590 --> 01:10:39,679
are particularly fearsome

2105
01:10:42,870 --> 01:10:41,600
it looks in 360 degrees so it looks in

2106
01:10:45,430 --> 01:10:42,880
every direction

2107
01:10:46,149 --> 01:10:45,440
but what's what was interesting was i

2108
01:10:50,070 --> 01:10:46,159
started

2109
01:10:52,550 --> 01:10:50,080
material on how

2110
01:10:54,070 --> 01:10:52,560
the the actual system work like the

2111
01:10:57,270 --> 01:10:54,080
there's two main computers

2112
01:10:59,590 --> 01:10:57,280
there's the radar system itself it's an

2113
01:11:01,430 --> 01:10:59,600
electronically a scanned array type

2114
01:11:03,750 --> 01:11:01,440
writer it's not a spinning head

2115
01:11:04,790 --> 01:11:03,760
um and i started learning about some of

2116
01:11:07,350 --> 01:11:04,800
the terminology

2117
01:11:07,910 --> 01:11:07,360
that the space violence network of which

2118
01:11:11,270 --> 01:11:07,920
this

2119
01:11:14,630 --> 01:11:11,280
site is part of um uses whatever

2120
01:11:15,510 --> 01:11:14,640
so i decided because because raf filing

2121
01:11:17,510 --> 01:11:15,520
dials

2122
01:11:19,189 --> 01:11:17,520
where the radar system is it's actually

2123
01:11:20,229 --> 01:11:19,199
run by the british it's run by the royal

2124
01:11:21,750 --> 01:11:20,239
air force it's actually

2125
01:11:23,669 --> 01:11:21,760
i think at the moment i'm not sure but

2126
01:11:25,350 --> 01:11:23,679
it's but until recently it was run by

2127
01:11:28,229 --> 01:11:25,360
fighter command

2128
01:11:29,270 --> 01:11:28,239
so it's a frontline premier uh early

2129
01:11:31,430 --> 01:11:29,280
warning site run

2130
01:11:33,590 --> 01:11:31,440
run by the royal air force but mostly

2131
01:11:35,189 --> 01:11:33,600
paid for by the united states air force

2132
01:11:37,030 --> 01:11:35,199
there's obviously united states air

2133
01:11:39,830 --> 01:11:37,040
force servicemen there

2134
01:11:40,630 --> 01:11:39,840
um it's it's a totally joint or combined

2135
01:11:42,310 --> 01:11:40,640
site

2136
01:11:44,390 --> 01:11:42,320
between the royal air force of england

2137
01:11:46,470 --> 01:11:44,400
and united states air force

2138
01:11:48,229 --> 01:11:46,480
through the 21st space swing at peterson

2139
01:11:51,750 --> 01:11:48,239
air force base colorado

2140
01:11:52,630 --> 01:11:51,760
and i decided i'm not going to waste my

2141
01:11:54,630 --> 01:11:52,640
time because

2142
01:11:56,390 --> 01:11:54,640
dealing with air force space command

2143
01:11:56,790 --> 01:11:56,400
that freedom of information requests has

2144
01:11:59,510 --> 01:11:56,800
become

2145
01:12:00,709 --> 01:11:59,520
painfully slow and disorganized so i

2146
01:12:04,630 --> 01:12:00,719
thought i'll go straight to

2147
01:12:06,229 --> 01:12:04,640
the british so i went so i've done a lot

2148
01:12:07,830 --> 01:12:06,239
of successful foi work

2149
01:12:09,110 --> 01:12:07,840
with the ministry of defence a lot of it

2150
01:12:10,070 --> 01:12:09,120
i haven't even published i've got to get

2151
01:12:12,790 --> 01:12:10,080
around to it and

2152
01:12:14,390 --> 01:12:12,800
anyway a few years ago this is really

2153
01:12:16,149 --> 01:12:14,400
really interesting you can read what you

2154
01:12:18,790 --> 01:12:16,159
want into this i'm not reading too much

2155
01:12:21,669 --> 01:12:18,800
but it's a good laugh

2156
01:12:23,350 --> 01:12:21,679
this is really weird i submitted a um so

2157
01:12:26,630 --> 01:12:23,360
i submitted an foi

2158
01:12:28,149 --> 01:12:26,640
um request to the to the british so i i

2159
01:12:30,149 --> 01:12:28,159
basically gave them some background

2160
01:12:31,590 --> 01:12:30,159
about what filing dales or rathfalling

2161
01:12:33,030 --> 01:12:31,600
dale's ballistic missile early warning

2162
01:12:34,550 --> 01:12:33,040
system what it actually does

2163
01:12:36,390 --> 01:12:34,560
because the foi officer isn't going to

2164
01:12:39,669 --> 01:12:36,400
know everything right so

2165
01:12:41,590 --> 01:12:39,679
i um i i

2166
01:12:43,110 --> 01:12:41,600
i didn't i wasn't going to mention ufos

2167
01:12:45,510 --> 01:12:43,120
i was i'm not no one stup

2168
01:12:47,430 --> 01:12:45,520
no one's stupid enough to to say to the

2169
01:12:49,669 --> 01:12:47,440
british ministry of defense i want

2170
01:12:51,189 --> 01:12:49,679
documents which can mean anything can

2171
01:12:52,470 --> 01:12:51,199
mean print out target printouts

2172
01:12:54,470 --> 01:12:52,480
assessments

2173
01:12:57,430 --> 01:12:54,480
whatever i'm not just going to write i

2174
01:12:57,750 --> 01:12:57,440
want all documents about ufos detected

2175
01:12:59,510 --> 01:12:57,760
by

2176
01:13:00,310 --> 01:12:59,520
raf filing dales thank you very much no

2177
01:13:01,750 --> 01:13:00,320
one's going to write that you're just

2178
01:13:03,189 --> 01:13:01,760
going to be knocked back immediately

2179
01:13:05,270 --> 01:13:03,199
so what i did i was obviously more

2180
01:13:07,110 --> 01:13:05,280
careful with that so what i did

2181
01:13:09,110 --> 01:13:07,120
you got to hear this right remember i

2182
01:13:10,870 --> 01:13:09,120
never use the word ufo

2183
01:13:12,550 --> 01:13:10,880
nor especially not the word

2184
01:13:15,590 --> 01:13:12,560
extraterrestrial

2185
01:13:17,510 --> 01:13:15,600
so i've asked ministry of defense for

2186
01:13:19,990 --> 01:13:17,520
copies of records related to the

2187
01:13:22,390 --> 01:13:20,000
detection of unknown unidentified or

2188
01:13:24,390 --> 01:13:22,400
unsolved objects by rafalingdales

2189
01:13:25,990 --> 01:13:24,400
specifically i wish to be furnished with

2190
01:13:26,790 --> 01:13:26,000
copies of actual detections and

2191
01:13:28,709 --> 01:13:26,800
trackings

2192
01:13:30,870 --> 01:13:28,719
which may include electronic forms

2193
01:13:31,510 --> 01:13:30,880
electronic reports automated pictorials

2194
01:13:33,990 --> 01:13:31,520
etc

2195
01:13:34,950 --> 01:13:34,000
which are created by systems at raf

2196
01:13:37,189 --> 01:13:34,960
filing does

2197
01:13:38,550 --> 01:13:37,199
the date range blah blah blah anyway

2198
01:13:40,070 --> 01:13:38,560
i've got an acknowledgement few hours

2199
01:13:44,149 --> 01:13:40,080
few days later whatever

2200
01:13:46,630 --> 01:13:44,159
and and this is what was really weird

2201
01:13:49,350 --> 01:13:46,640
remember i've asked for essentially

2202
01:13:51,590 --> 01:13:49,360
electronic reports electronic pictorials

2203
01:13:53,030 --> 01:13:51,600
event reports about unknown objects

2204
01:13:56,149 --> 01:13:53,040
whatever right and this is the reply i

2205
01:13:59,910 --> 01:13:57,990
i have searched our records for the

2206
01:14:00,630 --> 01:13:59,920
information you have asked for and i can

2207
01:14:02,310 --> 01:14:00,640
confirm

2208
01:14:05,110 --> 01:14:02,320
that the ministry of defense holds

2209
01:14:07,910 --> 01:14:05,120
information in the scope of your request

2210
01:14:09,350 --> 01:14:07,920
however this information relates to

2211
01:14:11,189 --> 01:14:09,360
relates to matters pertinent to the

2212
01:14:14,390 --> 01:14:11,199
defense of the united kingdom and not to

2213
01:14:16,630 --> 01:14:14,400
so-called extraterrestrial life

2214
01:14:18,390 --> 01:14:16,640
they answered that after that was the

2215
01:14:20,630 --> 01:14:18,400
reply to what you wrote them

2216
01:14:23,110 --> 01:14:20,640
yeah so i i've asked them for copies of

2217
01:14:24,870 --> 01:14:23,120
records related to the teachers

2218
01:14:26,229 --> 01:14:24,880
yeah they took the jump specifically i

2219
01:14:27,750 --> 01:14:26,239
mean this is when one of the things i

2220
01:14:29,750 --> 01:14:27,760
asked for was i wish to be finished with

2221
01:14:31,910 --> 01:14:29,760
copies of actual detections and traction

2222
01:14:33,750 --> 01:14:31,920
trackings electronic forms electronic

2223
01:14:35,669 --> 01:14:33,760
reports pictorials blah blah blah

2224
01:14:37,990 --> 01:14:35,679
and in the first paragraph in the first

2225
01:14:39,750 --> 01:14:38,000
sentence they've said however this

2226
01:14:41,110 --> 01:14:39,760
information relates to matters pertinent

2227
01:14:42,709 --> 01:14:41,120
to the defense of the united kingdom

2228
01:14:44,630 --> 01:14:42,719
and not to so-called extraterrestrial

2229
01:14:44,950 --> 01:14:44,640
life that was the most baffling thing

2230
01:14:46,709 --> 01:14:44,960
i've

2231
01:14:49,030 --> 01:14:46,719
never meant either they've looked me up

2232
01:14:51,910 --> 01:14:49,040
as you know who is this foi researcher

2233
01:14:53,110 --> 01:14:51,920
or they've maybe or they've just jumped

2234
01:14:55,189 --> 01:14:53,120
but but it gets better

2235
01:14:56,550 --> 01:14:55,199
right they go on with the administrative

2236
01:14:58,149 --> 01:14:56,560
stuff about how long

2237
01:14:59,590 --> 01:14:58,159
about that there's too much information

2238
01:15:02,470 --> 01:14:59,600
to give them blah blah blah

2239
01:15:04,390 --> 01:15:02,480
i peel it but anyway um this is there's

2240
01:15:05,910 --> 01:15:04,400
another yet another the last sentence

2241
01:15:10,470 --> 01:15:05,920
the last sentence

2242
01:15:12,390 --> 01:15:10,480
um uh is the department has no opinion

2243
01:15:13,910 --> 01:15:12,400
on the existence that remember this is

2244
01:15:17,270 --> 01:15:13,920
after i ask for electronic

2245
01:15:17,910 --> 01:15:17,280
reports right the department has no

2246
01:15:19,990 --> 01:15:17,920
opinion

2247
01:15:21,430 --> 01:15:20,000
on the existence or otherwise of

2248
01:15:23,910 --> 01:15:21,440
extraterrestrial life

2249
01:15:25,350 --> 01:15:23,920
while the mod continues to receive

2250
01:15:27,750 --> 01:15:25,360
correspondence from members of the

2251
01:15:31,350 --> 01:15:27,760
public concerning ufo sightings

2252
01:15:34,149 --> 01:15:31,360
the mod does not investigate those right

2253
01:15:36,229 --> 01:15:34,159
it was the biggest jump i have never

2254
01:15:39,189 --> 01:15:36,239
like it was the biggest jump

2255
01:15:39,990 --> 01:15:39,199
anyway as the foi what actually ended up

2256
01:15:43,350 --> 01:15:40,000
happening was

2257
01:15:44,390 --> 01:15:43,360
is that is that i we we went we got into

2258
01:15:46,070 --> 01:15:44,400
a bit of a battle

2259
01:15:48,550 --> 01:15:46,080
like we went back and forth i appealed

2260
01:15:50,390 --> 01:15:48,560
it and carried on i reduced the scope of

2261
01:15:52,390 --> 01:15:50,400
my request so i wasn't asking for you

2262
01:15:54,149 --> 01:15:52,400
know 10 years worth of data i reduced it

2263
01:15:55,590 --> 01:15:54,159
to like a year's worth of data

2264
01:15:57,510 --> 01:15:55,600
and they basically came back and they

2265
01:15:59,350 --> 01:15:57,520
said this i said that the ballistic

2266
01:16:01,030 --> 01:15:59,360
missile early warning system computers

2267
01:16:03,830 --> 01:16:01,040
and radar at filing dales

2268
01:16:04,470 --> 01:16:03,840
runs 24 hours a day it's absolute it

2269
01:16:06,229 --> 01:16:04,480
detects

2270
01:16:07,830 --> 01:16:06,239
everything i said we've got terabytes

2271
01:16:08,390 --> 01:16:07,840
and terabytes of data coming in every

2272
01:16:09,990 --> 01:16:08,400
minute

2273
01:16:12,149 --> 01:16:10,000
and we've got to store it they said we

2274
01:16:14,310 --> 01:16:12,159
simply cannot go through

2275
01:16:15,270 --> 01:16:14,320
looking for specifically what you're

2276
01:16:17,669 --> 01:16:15,280
actually after

2277
01:16:18,709 --> 01:16:17,679
i find it i look they i do believe that

2278
01:16:20,229 --> 01:16:18,719
the scope of it

2279
01:16:22,550 --> 01:16:20,239
the amount of information in digital

2280
01:16:24,950 --> 01:16:22,560
format would be inconceivable

2281
01:16:26,790 --> 01:16:24,960
but i don't necessarily believe that

2282
01:16:29,669 --> 01:16:26,800
they couldn't weed out

2283
01:16:32,470 --> 01:16:29,679
say a day's worth or a week's worth of

2284
01:16:34,229 --> 01:16:32,480
uncorrelated targets or unusual

2285
01:16:35,590 --> 01:16:34,239
objects that they've detected in space

2286
01:16:37,350 --> 01:16:35,600
or the upper atmosphere i just don't

2287
01:16:38,070 --> 01:16:37,360
believe that i use an example that

2288
01:16:40,630 --> 01:16:38,080
someone

2289
01:16:41,830 --> 01:16:40,640
once gave me very important and i and i

2290
01:16:44,070 --> 01:16:41,840
think this a lot

2291
01:16:45,110 --> 01:16:44,080
um someone once said to me if you're

2292
01:16:46,950 --> 01:16:45,120
ever at knockback

2293
01:16:48,550 --> 01:16:46,960
for information that you know should be

2294
01:16:49,990 --> 01:16:48,560
there or or that

2295
01:16:51,990 --> 01:16:50,000
or that you would least like to know

2296
01:16:53,510 --> 01:16:52,000
more about they said

2297
01:16:55,189 --> 01:16:53,520
it was the person the military said to

2298
01:16:57,669 --> 01:16:55,199
me

2299
01:16:59,669 --> 01:16:57,679
um they said they said i can guarantee

2300
01:17:03,110 --> 01:16:59,679
this if you're a four-star general

2301
01:17:03,830 --> 01:17:03,120
or a three-star general or or an admiral

2302
01:17:06,790 --> 01:17:03,840
of the fleet

2303
01:17:07,750 --> 01:17:06,800
you know someone with real real a real

2304
01:17:09,430 --> 01:17:07,760
power broker

2305
01:17:11,270 --> 01:17:09,440
if an admiral or a four-star or a

2306
01:17:12,470 --> 01:17:11,280
three-star general walked into the same

2307
01:17:15,669 --> 01:17:12,480
building and said right

2308
01:17:17,830 --> 01:17:15,679
i want a week's worth of uncorrelated

2309
01:17:20,390 --> 01:17:17,840
target data from your computers

2310
01:17:21,669 --> 01:17:20,400
he said i guarantee that the captain or

2311
01:17:23,030 --> 01:17:21,679
the colonel in the room would say yes

2312
01:17:23,830 --> 01:17:23,040
sir immediately you'll have it

2313
01:17:25,990 --> 01:17:23,840
immediately

2314
01:17:27,510 --> 01:17:26,000
like that so they're telling me that no

2315
01:17:28,790 --> 01:17:27,520
there's too much data we're not going to

2316
01:17:30,229 --> 01:17:28,800
pull it out for you and it'll take

2317
01:17:31,430 --> 01:17:30,239
hundreds of hours for us to pull it out

2318
01:17:32,390 --> 01:17:31,440
for you then we've got to reduct it all

2319
01:17:34,950 --> 01:17:32,400
blah blah blah

2320
01:17:35,669 --> 01:17:34,960
um some of that might be fair enough but

2321
01:17:37,510 --> 01:17:35,679
but my

2322
01:17:39,189 --> 01:17:37,520
contact said to me he said if you're a

2323
01:17:40,950 --> 01:17:39,199
four-star general and you marched in

2324
01:17:43,510 --> 01:17:40,960
there and said i want this this and this

2325
01:17:44,310 --> 01:17:43,520
they would immediately say yes sir yeah

2326
01:17:47,430 --> 01:17:44,320
so

2327
01:17:49,030 --> 01:17:47,440
i'm not buying it um but this battle

2328
01:17:50,790 --> 01:17:49,040
went on for a long time and i've given

2329
01:17:51,910 --> 01:17:50,800
up um i will try again one day

2330
01:17:54,070 --> 01:17:51,920
at least they've admitted that they've

2331
01:17:54,950 --> 01:17:54,080
got reams of data on on object

2332
01:17:57,590 --> 01:17:54,960
identification

2333
01:17:59,189 --> 01:17:57,600
above above above the north pole that's

2334
01:18:02,229 --> 01:17:59,199
enough for me to start with

2335
01:18:03,030 --> 01:18:02,239
yeah yeah wow and and also when we first

2336
01:18:06,390 --> 01:18:03,040
started

2337
01:18:07,510 --> 01:18:06,400
connecting um you said that i should

2338
01:18:11,430 --> 01:18:07,520
look into

2339
01:18:12,950 --> 01:18:11,440
norad jcc i'm sorry j33c

2340
01:18:15,990 --> 01:18:12,960
i tried to look it up and it was re

2341
01:18:19,030 --> 01:18:16,000
something was renamed or something

2342
01:18:19,910 --> 01:18:19,040
yeah um oh i know what you're talking

2343
01:18:21,430 --> 01:18:19,920
about you're talking about the center

2344
01:18:23,990 --> 01:18:21,440
for aerospace analysis

2345
01:18:25,510 --> 01:18:24,000
so in all the reading i've done and it's

2346
01:18:28,390 --> 01:18:25,520
been incredibly deep writing

2347
01:18:30,229 --> 01:18:28,400
like like unit histories and command

2348
01:18:33,350 --> 01:18:30,239
chronologies and very old

2349
01:18:35,669 --> 01:18:33,360
instructions and and and even

2350
01:18:37,350 --> 01:18:35,679
thesis like military theses and thesis

2351
01:18:38,709 --> 01:18:37,360
dissertations and stuff from the air

2352
01:18:41,830 --> 01:18:38,719
university or

2353
01:18:42,550 --> 01:18:41,840
the naval war college or whatever i've

2354
01:18:45,830 --> 01:18:42,560
learned that

2355
01:18:49,030 --> 01:18:45,840
um i've found the two well

2356
01:18:51,590 --> 01:18:49,040
we'll say in the last 25 years

2357
01:18:53,270 --> 01:18:51,600
the two most or two of the most

2358
01:18:55,430 --> 01:18:53,280
suspicious

2359
01:18:57,270 --> 01:18:55,440
entities within the north american

2360
01:18:59,350 --> 01:18:57,280
aerospace defense command

2361
01:19:00,870 --> 01:18:59,360
which is based at both cheyenne mountain

2362
01:19:01,910 --> 01:19:00,880
and peterson air force base both in

2363
01:19:03,350 --> 01:19:01,920
colorado

2364
01:19:05,270 --> 01:19:03,360
they're responsible so norad is

2365
01:19:07,030 --> 01:19:05,280
responsible for canada and america's

2366
01:19:08,870 --> 01:19:07,040
military air sovereignty

2367
01:19:10,950 --> 01:19:08,880
missile warning to a point missile

2368
01:19:12,070 --> 01:19:10,960
warnings mostly stratcom u.s stratcom in

2369
01:19:13,830 --> 01:19:12,080
nebraska but

2370
01:19:15,110 --> 01:19:13,840
norad's got a customer of missile

2371
01:19:16,790 --> 01:19:15,120
warning information but

2372
01:19:18,550 --> 01:19:16,800
norway is responsible for atmospheric

2373
01:19:20,070 --> 01:19:18,560
and aerospace detection of hijacked

2374
01:19:23,830 --> 01:19:20,080
aircraft

2375
01:19:24,790 --> 01:19:23,840
in conjunction with the faa and blah

2376
01:19:27,030 --> 01:19:24,800
blah blah

2377
01:19:27,830 --> 01:19:27,040
but the within or it's a huge

2378
01:19:31,350 --> 01:19:27,840
organization

2379
01:19:31,990 --> 01:19:31,360
it covers two countries um but within

2380
01:19:34,630 --> 01:19:32,000
norad

2381
01:19:35,189 --> 01:19:34,640
the two organizations that in the last

2382
01:19:38,630 --> 01:19:35,199
25

2383
01:19:40,550 --> 01:19:38,640
30 years that i've absolutely a hundred

2384
01:19:41,669 --> 01:19:40,560
percent sure have dealt with the ufo

2385
01:19:43,189 --> 01:19:41,679
topic or should have or

2386
01:19:46,149 --> 01:19:43,199
at least their paperwork says that they

2387
01:19:48,550 --> 01:19:46,159
have there's two

2388
01:19:50,070 --> 01:19:48,560
one is so norad's divided into eight

2389
01:19:52,149 --> 01:19:50,080
directorates there's the directorate of

2390
01:19:53,830 --> 01:19:52,159
operations directorate of logistics

2391
01:19:56,550 --> 01:19:53,840
directorate of intelligence directorate

2392
01:19:58,870 --> 01:19:56,560
of manpower and personnel whatever

2393
01:20:01,669 --> 01:19:58,880
one of them is directorate of operations

2394
01:20:04,310 --> 01:20:01,679
which is abbreviated to j3

2395
01:20:04,950 --> 01:20:04,320
now within the directorate of operations

2396
01:20:06,870 --> 01:20:04,960
there's

2397
01:20:07,990 --> 01:20:06,880
um like i think maybe six

2398
01:20:11,430 --> 01:20:08,000
sub-directorates

2399
01:20:11,830 --> 01:20:11,440
so three one would be plans and poll

2400
01:20:13,830 --> 01:20:11,840
like

2401
01:20:15,030 --> 01:20:13,840
it would be directorate operations slash

2402
01:20:17,110 --> 01:20:15,040
plans and policy

2403
01:20:19,110 --> 01:20:17,120
j2 would be directorate of operations

2404
01:20:22,470 --> 01:20:19,120
intelligence and logistics

2405
01:20:25,830 --> 01:20:22,480
j3 is the

2406
01:20:28,070 --> 01:20:25,840
um would be the uh

2407
01:20:29,990 --> 01:20:28,080
like the sub directorate for if it's

2408
01:20:32,390 --> 01:20:30,000
called aerospace operations

2409
01:20:34,470 --> 01:20:32,400
so what i'm saying is within the

2410
01:20:35,910 --> 01:20:34,480
directorate of operations for norad

2411
01:20:37,910 --> 01:20:35,920
there's a sub-directorate called

2412
01:20:40,229 --> 01:20:37,920
aerospace operations

2413
01:20:41,270 --> 01:20:40,239
that is divided into many different

2414
01:20:43,830 --> 01:20:41,280
cells and offices

2415
01:20:45,270 --> 01:20:43,840
and one of them is called the air

2416
01:20:47,669 --> 01:20:45,280
management branch

2417
01:20:49,270 --> 01:20:47,679
and i believe it's i'd have to go right

2418
01:20:50,870 --> 01:20:49,280
back into it but

2419
01:20:54,550 --> 01:20:50,880
the so the full abbreviation would be

2420
01:20:57,910 --> 01:20:54,560
norad j333-c

2421
01:21:01,750 --> 01:20:57,920
that is where um that is where

2422
01:21:03,510 --> 01:21:01,760
uh um unusual aerial activity has been

2423
01:21:06,070 --> 01:21:03,520
studied in the past

2424
01:21:07,750 --> 01:21:06,080
for the commander of the of the

2425
01:21:08,310 --> 01:21:07,760
directorate of operations so we're

2426
01:21:11,030 --> 01:21:08,320
talking

2427
01:21:13,030 --> 01:21:11,040
data regarding um you know how fast that

2428
01:21:13,990 --> 01:21:13,040
they can pick up a hijacked aircraft

2429
01:21:15,430 --> 01:21:14,000
like how fast can

2430
01:21:17,189 --> 01:21:15,440
you know not like the airspace

2431
01:21:18,550 --> 01:21:17,199
management branch of aerospace

2432
01:21:19,350 --> 01:21:18,560
operations of the directorate of

2433
01:21:22,229 --> 01:21:19,360
operations

2434
01:21:24,390 --> 01:21:22,239
was heavily involved in the study of the

2435
01:21:25,030 --> 01:21:24,400
plane routes during september 11 and and

2436
01:21:28,790 --> 01:21:25,040
how

2437
01:21:31,189 --> 01:21:28,800
off and blah blah blah

2438
01:21:32,550 --> 01:21:31,199
right so that's definitely one

2439
01:21:34,149 --> 01:21:32,560
organization the other one that's

2440
01:21:35,669 --> 01:21:34,159
probably far more important and

2441
01:21:37,189 --> 01:21:35,679
frustratingly we don't know what it's

2442
01:21:38,709 --> 01:21:37,199
called now and they won't give me a

2443
01:21:40,229 --> 01:21:38,719
straight answer and i've asked and asked

2444
01:21:42,390 --> 01:21:40,239
and asked i even rang norad

2445
01:21:43,669 --> 01:21:42,400
i was even i was even offered to ring

2446
01:21:44,790 --> 01:21:43,679
all right like they actually said ring

2447
01:21:46,310 --> 01:21:44,800
between those hours

2448
01:21:48,310 --> 01:21:46,320
and you'll speak to colonel smith or

2449
01:21:50,870 --> 01:21:48,320
whatever wouldn't come to the phone

2450
01:21:52,629 --> 01:21:50,880
uh oh louise was there there was a

2451
01:21:54,149 --> 01:21:52,639
massive noir exercise going on they used

2452
01:21:54,709 --> 01:21:54,159
that as an excuse maybe it was true i

2453
01:21:57,910 --> 01:21:54,719
don't know

2454
01:22:01,590 --> 01:21:57,920
but the organization is this

2455
01:22:04,390 --> 01:22:01,600
so back in the 80s um it was called

2456
01:22:06,629 --> 01:22:04,400
the directorate of aerospace analysis

2457
01:22:09,189 --> 01:22:06,639
and it was a joint directorate between

2458
01:22:11,430 --> 01:22:09,199
norad and the old u.s space command and

2459
01:22:15,189 --> 01:22:11,440
it literally abbreviated to norad

2460
01:22:18,229 --> 01:22:15,199
slash us space command space

2461
01:22:21,270 --> 01:22:18,239
directorate for aerospace analysis right

2462
01:22:24,390 --> 01:22:21,280
that's fine um

2463
01:22:26,229 --> 01:22:24,400
then it was renamed in 1993 it was

2464
01:22:29,270 --> 01:22:26,239
renamed as the

2465
01:22:31,270 --> 01:22:29,280
center for aerospace analysis and again

2466
01:22:32,229 --> 01:22:31,280
it was placed within norad and u.s space

2467
01:22:35,830 --> 01:22:32,239
command

2468
01:22:37,510 --> 01:22:35,840
in 2004 it was

2469
01:22:39,830 --> 01:22:37,520
still called the center for aerospace

2470
01:22:41,590 --> 01:22:39,840
analysis and it was placed

2471
01:22:43,430 --> 01:22:41,600
within northcom which is a unified

2472
01:22:44,229 --> 01:22:43,440
combatant command and norad headquarters

2473
01:22:48,229 --> 01:22:44,239
so now it's

2474
01:22:51,350 --> 01:22:48,239
called northcom norad sorry northcom

2475
01:22:53,750 --> 01:22:51,360
norad center for aerospace analysis then

2476
01:22:55,350 --> 01:22:53,760
in about 2006 it disappeared it was

2477
01:22:55,669 --> 01:22:55,360
renamed and they won't tell me what it

2478
01:23:03,990 --> 01:22:55,679
is

2479
01:23:06,470 --> 01:23:04,000
instruction like a norad

2480
01:23:08,550 --> 01:23:06,480
manual it's 20 pages it's it's the copy

2481
01:23:11,830 --> 01:23:08,560
i've got from 1992

2482
01:23:15,510 --> 01:23:11,840
it's called um

2483
01:23:18,149 --> 01:23:15,520
it's called uh norad instruction 10-15

2484
01:23:20,870 --> 01:23:18,159
identification of air traffic right and

2485
01:23:23,990 --> 01:23:20,880
on page 10.

2486
01:23:24,629 --> 01:23:24,000
it says so so just for some background

2487
01:23:26,950 --> 01:23:24,639
whenever

2488
01:23:28,550 --> 01:23:26,960
an object is detected above america or

2489
01:23:29,830 --> 01:23:28,560
around america and canada whenever

2490
01:23:31,030 --> 01:23:29,840
there's an object detected that they

2491
01:23:33,030 --> 01:23:31,040
don't know what it is that's in the

2492
01:23:35,110 --> 01:23:33,040
atmosphere i'm not talking about space

2493
01:23:36,950 --> 01:23:35,120
talk about in the atmosphere when an

2494
01:23:39,270 --> 01:23:36,960
object is detected that's not

2495
01:23:40,870 --> 01:23:39,280
got radio it's not transponding it's not

2496
01:23:42,229 --> 01:23:40,880
going away from the united states

2497
01:23:43,110 --> 01:23:42,239
whatever it's a bit suspicious it's

2498
01:23:46,149 --> 01:23:43,120
called a ut

2499
01:23:47,110 --> 01:23:46,159
unknown track if it lasts in the air if

2500
01:23:49,430 --> 01:23:47,120
they can't

2501
01:23:50,149 --> 01:23:49,440
chase it if it won't land if it won't

2502
01:23:52,550 --> 01:23:50,159
talk back

2503
01:23:54,790 --> 01:23:52,560
via radio or a distress signal after

2504
01:23:56,709 --> 01:23:54,800
five minutes so 240 seconds

2505
01:23:58,229 --> 01:23:56,719
it's called a norad remaining unknown

2506
01:24:00,070 --> 01:23:58,239
that means everything they've done

2507
01:24:01,430 --> 01:24:00,080
to get in contact with this thing

2508
01:24:03,270 --> 01:24:01,440
they're getting really worried now it's

2509
01:24:06,310 --> 01:24:03,280
been a hard it's been five minutes

2510
01:24:08,550 --> 01:24:06,320
right so basically all

2511
01:24:10,229 --> 01:24:08,560
unknown tracks and norad remaining

2512
01:24:13,590 --> 01:24:10,239
unknowns

2513
01:24:16,310 --> 01:24:13,600
um they are all they are all

2514
01:24:17,830 --> 01:24:16,320
uh well back in the 80s and 90s and into

2515
01:24:20,790 --> 01:24:17,840
the 2000s they were

2516
01:24:21,990 --> 01:24:20,800
all recorded on something called a form

2517
01:24:23,590 --> 01:24:22,000
61

2518
01:24:25,270 --> 01:24:23,600
which is back then it was a paper form

2519
01:24:27,669 --> 01:24:25,280
in the 80s but now

2520
01:24:29,750 --> 01:24:27,679
and after that it was a digital form and

2521
01:24:31,350 --> 01:24:29,760
on a form 61 you put

2522
01:24:32,790 --> 01:24:31,360
obviously the captain's name or the

2523
01:24:36,709 --> 01:24:32,800
colonel's name or whatever at the top

2524
01:24:38,790 --> 01:24:36,719
the date the time local the track

2525
01:24:40,790 --> 01:24:38,800
like the track strength like how how big

2526
01:24:43,030 --> 01:24:40,800
of a radar target it is

2527
01:24:44,709 --> 01:24:43,040
um which direction it was going azimuth

2528
01:24:46,629 --> 01:24:44,719
bearing heading all those things

2529
01:24:48,629 --> 01:24:46,639
did you scramble like did you did you

2530
01:24:50,470 --> 01:24:48,639
order from this air force base or this

2531
01:24:52,790 --> 01:24:50,480
air force base did you order a scramble

2532
01:24:54,149 --> 01:24:52,800
if so how many jets what were they f-15s

2533
01:24:56,629 --> 01:24:54,159
f-16s whatever

2534
01:24:57,590 --> 01:24:56,639
did you find the object did it disappear

2535
01:25:01,030 --> 01:24:57,600
whatever

2536
01:25:02,470 --> 01:25:01,040
right the the form 61 is two pages of

2537
01:25:04,629 --> 01:25:02,480
essentially what you would call

2538
01:25:07,030 --> 01:25:04,639
ufo information it's like a ufo pro

2539
01:25:10,629 --> 01:25:07,040
forma for a radar technician at norad

2540
01:25:13,590 --> 01:25:10,639
anyway here's where it's interesting um

2541
01:25:14,470 --> 01:25:13,600
all form 61s once they're filled out it

2542
01:25:16,229 --> 01:25:14,480
says in this

2543
01:25:18,390 --> 01:25:16,239
norad instruction that i've got it says

2544
01:25:20,790 --> 01:25:18,400
that all form 61s

2545
01:25:22,229 --> 01:25:20,800
plus associated data that will be actual

2546
01:25:25,030 --> 01:25:22,239
radar hits

2547
01:25:27,350 --> 01:25:25,040
all form 61s and associated data is to

2548
01:25:30,390 --> 01:25:27,360
be sent

2549
01:25:33,189 --> 01:25:30,400
to the center for aerospace analysis

2550
01:25:34,550 --> 01:25:33,199
for further study and investigation so

2551
01:25:36,709 --> 01:25:34,560
imagine this you've got

2552
01:25:37,830 --> 01:25:36,719
you've got norad technicians and battle

2553
01:25:39,430 --> 01:25:37,840
space operators

2554
01:25:41,189 --> 01:25:39,440
every now and again when they see an

2555
01:25:42,629 --> 01:25:41,199
unknown track or a norad remaining

2556
01:25:44,229 --> 01:25:42,639
unknown it's an object they've got no

2557
01:25:45,030 --> 01:25:44,239
idea what it is it's doing very strange

2558
01:25:47,030 --> 01:25:45,040
things

2559
01:25:48,470 --> 01:25:47,040
they fill it out and sometimes i think

2560
01:25:50,229 --> 01:25:48,480
at the end of the day

2561
01:25:51,510 --> 01:25:50,239
unless it's you know it's started world

2562
01:25:54,070 --> 01:25:51,520
war three or whatever but

2563
01:25:55,910 --> 01:25:54,080
at the end of the day all the form 61s

2564
01:25:56,629 --> 01:25:55,920
from all the norad sites around america

2565
01:25:58,470 --> 01:25:56,639
and canada

2566
01:26:00,070 --> 01:25:58,480
all the form 61s are loaded into a

2567
01:26:01,990 --> 01:26:00,080
computer and they're sent to norway

2568
01:26:03,830 --> 01:26:02,000
headquarters to the center for aerospace

2569
01:26:07,110 --> 01:26:03,840
analysis for like i say

2570
01:26:08,629 --> 01:26:07,120
further investigation and study and

2571
01:26:10,470 --> 01:26:08,639
i think it's analysis and study or

2572
01:26:11,830 --> 01:26:10,480
something so what you're basically in a

2573
01:26:14,870 --> 01:26:11,840
nutshell you've got

2574
01:26:17,110 --> 01:26:14,880
ufoe type data and

2575
01:26:18,790 --> 01:26:17,120
original reports directly from norad

2576
01:26:19,270 --> 01:26:18,800
commanders or deputy commanders and

2577
01:26:21,030 --> 01:26:19,280
stuff

2578
01:26:22,950 --> 01:26:21,040
going straight to one office in one

2579
01:26:25,030 --> 01:26:22,960
building for further analysis

2580
01:26:27,189 --> 01:26:25,040
that's incredible that's and we've never

2581
01:26:29,990 --> 01:26:27,199
seen a single form 61

2582
01:26:31,990 --> 01:26:30,000
or any associated data or an associated

2583
01:26:32,950 --> 01:26:32,000
investigations analysis statistical

2584
01:26:34,550 --> 01:26:32,960
conclusions

2585
01:26:36,870 --> 01:26:34,560
nothing this center for aerospace

2586
01:26:38,310 --> 01:26:36,880
analysis it doesn't even exist anymore

2587
01:26:41,830 --> 01:26:38,320
apparently it's being renamed

2588
01:26:43,110 --> 01:26:41,840
so i believe um it this could be an

2589
01:26:43,669 --> 01:26:43,120
absolute gold mine there could be

2590
01:26:45,430 --> 01:26:43,679
literally

2591
01:26:48,070 --> 01:26:45,440
thousands i would not be surprised there

2592
01:26:50,229 --> 01:26:48,080
were 100 dating back to say the mid 80s

2593
01:26:51,350 --> 01:26:50,239
there could be hundreds or maybe even

2594
01:26:53,669 --> 01:26:51,360
thousands

2595
01:26:54,870 --> 01:26:53,679
of essentially what are kind of ufo

2596
01:26:55,910 --> 01:26:54,880
cases now maybe they're all weather

2597
01:26:58,550 --> 01:26:55,920
balloons i don't know

2598
01:26:59,350 --> 01:26:58,560
but i think it's gold i think that could

2599
01:27:02,790 --> 01:26:59,360
be gold

2600
01:27:04,070 --> 01:27:02,800
yeah you know i'm wondering this thought

2601
01:27:06,709 --> 01:27:04,080
just occurred to me

2602
01:27:07,990 --> 01:27:06,719
you know there's louis elizondo out

2603
01:27:09,830 --> 01:27:08,000
there that supposedly

2604
01:27:12,390 --> 01:27:09,840
you know headed the the task force for

2605
01:27:15,430 --> 01:27:12,400
the pentagon to look into

2606
01:27:17,110 --> 01:27:15,440
unidentified whatever um

2607
01:27:18,790 --> 01:27:17,120
that's a source wouldn't that be a

2608
01:27:21,669 --> 01:27:18,800
source that he would have access to

2609
01:27:23,110 --> 01:27:21,679
i've told you no because norad is a

2610
01:27:26,550 --> 01:27:23,120
complete closed book

2611
01:27:28,790 --> 01:27:26,560
like like i'm like i i have

2612
01:27:30,149 --> 01:27:28,800
asked the right people had lou elizondo

2613
01:27:32,149 --> 01:27:30,159
or any of his crew

2614
01:27:33,350 --> 01:27:32,159
or bigelow's aerospace or whatever have

2615
01:27:34,870 --> 01:27:33,360
they dealt with

2616
01:27:36,950 --> 01:27:34,880
the organizations that i'm talking about

2617
01:27:38,870 --> 01:27:36,960
like norad center for aerospace analysis

2618
01:27:41,030 --> 01:27:38,880
or j33 office or

2619
01:27:42,550 --> 01:27:41,040
u.s space command us air force base

2620
01:27:44,629 --> 01:27:42,560
command's 21st space wing i've

2621
01:27:46,870 --> 01:27:44,639
repeatedly asked the right people

2622
01:27:48,149 --> 01:27:46,880
did or another one is nasik the national

2623
01:27:49,830 --> 01:27:48,159
air and space intelligence center at

2624
01:27:50,709 --> 01:27:49,840
wright-patterson air force base which is

2625
01:27:54,950 --> 01:27:50,719
the

2626
01:27:57,830 --> 01:27:54,960
ran blue

2627
01:27:59,270 --> 01:27:57,840
right i also i do know that there's ufo

2628
01:28:01,430 --> 01:27:59,280
study going on there too

2629
01:28:04,550 --> 01:28:01,440
or has been recently i've asked the

2630
01:28:07,910 --> 01:28:04,560
right people and said did lou elizondo

2631
01:28:09,510 --> 01:28:07,920
and his merry men ever get to talk to

2632
01:28:11,430 --> 01:28:09,520
either norad

2633
01:28:13,669 --> 01:28:11,440
or any of the norad cells or spice

2634
01:28:14,390 --> 01:28:13,679
command 21st by swing particularly or

2635
01:28:16,790 --> 01:28:14,400
nasik

2636
01:28:17,669 --> 01:28:16,800
whatever and i'm either getting back no

2637
01:28:26,629 --> 01:28:17,679
or

2638
01:28:28,790 --> 01:28:26,639
basically as far as i can tell those

2639
01:28:30,950 --> 01:28:28,800
organizations surprise surprise the very

2640
01:28:31,750 --> 01:28:30,960
organizations that that you would first

2641
01:28:34,229 --> 01:28:31,760
go to

2642
01:28:36,070 --> 01:28:34,239
not the dia not some sonar system by the

2643
01:28:38,310 --> 01:28:36,080
navy not a pilot's photograph

2644
01:28:39,750 --> 01:28:38,320
right the systems you would first go to

2645
01:28:41,030 --> 01:28:39,760
are the ones that he went to last or

2646
01:28:43,669 --> 01:28:41,040
never got to go to at all

2647
01:28:45,350 --> 01:28:43,679
right it's like norad and the us air

2648
01:28:47,510 --> 01:28:45,360
force space command get off the hook

2649
01:28:49,590 --> 01:28:47,520
over and over and over again it's always

2650
01:28:51,669 --> 01:28:49,600
the big bad mythical cia

2651
01:28:53,030 --> 01:28:51,679
and the embassies and nasa and all this

2652
01:28:57,030 --> 01:28:53,040
it's all a big red herring

2653
01:29:01,910 --> 01:28:59,350
the very places like the faas joint

2654
01:29:03,990 --> 01:29:01,920
surveillance system and norad's

2655
01:29:05,669 --> 01:29:04,000
uh center for aerospace analysis or you

2656
01:29:08,070 --> 01:29:05,679
know the 21st operations group of the

2657
01:29:09,910 --> 01:29:08,080
21st space room when will people learn

2658
01:29:11,590 --> 01:29:09,920
that that's where the goal is if there

2659
01:29:11,830 --> 01:29:11,600
is any gold to be found that's where it

2660
01:29:14,149 --> 01:29:11,840
is

2661
01:29:15,750 --> 01:29:14,159
i'm 100 sure that's just in america well

2662
01:29:17,350 --> 01:29:15,760
we've got our own gold here which

2663
01:29:18,950 --> 01:29:17,360
which is proving to be incredibly hard

2664
01:29:21,990 --> 01:29:18,960
to penetrate so

2665
01:29:24,950 --> 01:29:22,000
in australia um our 40 f

2666
01:29:25,350 --> 01:29:24,960
it's called the 41 it's called the 41

2667
01:29:27,430 --> 01:29:25,360
wing

2668
01:29:28,709 --> 01:29:27,440
it's a royal australian air force's 41

2669
01:29:32,070 --> 01:29:28,719
wing and they

2670
01:29:33,910 --> 01:29:32,080
operate um they operate the most

2671
01:29:34,550 --> 01:29:33,920
advanced over the horizon radar system

2672
01:29:36,229 --> 01:29:34,560
in the world

2673
01:29:38,550 --> 01:29:36,239
it's called the jindalee over the

2674
01:29:41,669 --> 01:29:38,560
horizon radar network john

2675
01:29:43,750 --> 01:29:41,679
and um it can see right over indonesia

2676
01:29:46,149 --> 01:29:43,760
papua new guinea andaman islands

2677
01:29:48,149 --> 01:29:46,159
whatever it can it looks north right

2678
01:29:51,030 --> 01:29:48,159
getting anything out of them

2679
01:29:52,470 --> 01:29:51,040
is proving i mean all i've had is just

2680
01:29:56,229 --> 01:29:52,480
redacted documents

2681
01:29:58,870 --> 01:29:56,239
and excuses and but

2682
01:30:00,629 --> 01:29:58,880
like it's extremely hard to get raw data

2683
01:30:01,430 --> 01:30:00,639
out it is highly classified i can see

2684
01:30:04,709 --> 01:30:01,440
why

2685
01:30:06,070 --> 01:30:04,719
but um but what i suppose frustrates me

2686
01:30:07,910 --> 01:30:06,080
is no one else is trying

2687
01:30:10,390 --> 01:30:07,920
like in my country i'm the only one

2688
01:30:12,229 --> 01:30:10,400
that's trying like it needs a more

2689
01:30:13,110 --> 01:30:12,239
coordinated approach it needs pressure

2690
01:30:15,030 --> 01:30:13,120
from

2691
01:30:16,790 --> 01:30:15,040
ministers or in your case state

2692
01:30:18,709 --> 01:30:16,800
legislators or congressmen or adjunct

2693
01:30:22,470 --> 01:30:18,719
generals or whatever but

2694
01:30:24,390 --> 01:30:22,480
it's very slow well um you know

2695
01:30:25,830 --> 01:30:24,400
our you mentioned our country quite a

2696
01:30:29,270 --> 01:30:25,840
few times so we have

2697
01:30:31,189 --> 01:30:29,280
uh we have this study going on um jesus

2698
01:30:34,550 --> 01:30:31,199
i was trying to

2699
01:30:36,390 --> 01:30:34,560
you know the investigation that's uh

2700
01:30:38,229 --> 01:30:36,400
through congress i believe it's through

2701
01:30:40,149 --> 01:30:38,239
congress with a task force

2702
01:30:41,590 --> 01:30:40,159
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that's really

2703
01:30:43,430 --> 01:30:41,600
good

2704
01:30:45,270 --> 01:30:43,440
but that seems like you know that would

2705
01:30:47,590 --> 01:30:45,280
be one of the places

2706
01:30:49,110 --> 01:30:47,600
or these places you're mentioning you

2707
01:30:51,030 --> 01:30:49,120
know there it seems like there's so much

2708
01:30:52,229 --> 01:30:51,040
information or so much potential

2709
01:30:54,950 --> 01:30:52,239
information

2710
01:30:56,709 --> 01:30:54,960
in these places i know there is i'm sure

2711
01:30:58,950 --> 01:30:56,719
sure of it added to the fact we've got

2712
01:30:59,910 --> 01:30:58,960
yeah that's the problem is we mean that

2713
01:31:02,550 --> 01:30:59,920
task force is

2714
01:31:03,590 --> 01:31:02,560
fantastic it's naval centric though it's

2715
01:31:05,270 --> 01:31:03,600
navy centric

2716
01:31:06,790 --> 01:31:05,280
yeah that's right you know i'm worried

2717
01:31:07,669 --> 01:31:06,800
that there's going to be like a like it

2718
01:31:09,270 --> 01:31:07,679
like an end date

2719
01:31:11,910 --> 01:31:09,280
like it like a project has an end date

2720
01:31:13,189 --> 01:31:11,920
just couldn't go for it yeah right like

2721
01:31:14,390 --> 01:31:13,199
i'm i'm worried that's going to have a

2722
01:31:15,990 --> 01:31:14,400
start and end date that's going to be

2723
01:31:17,430 --> 01:31:16,000
very limited funded you might find that

2724
01:31:20,229 --> 01:31:17,440
the funding is like 25

2725
01:31:20,790 --> 01:31:20,239
000 and they only and well but you might

2726
01:31:21,990 --> 01:31:20,800
and

2727
01:31:23,510 --> 01:31:22,000
no one's talked about the funding like

2728
01:31:25,510 --> 01:31:23,520
the actual dollars what would you rather

2729
01:31:27,270 --> 01:31:25,520
50 million or 25 000 bucks

2730
01:31:29,030 --> 01:31:27,280
right like we might find out that it's

2731
01:31:30,310 --> 01:31:29,040
actually that the people that actually

2732
01:31:31,910 --> 01:31:30,320
run it they'll be like a technical

2733
01:31:33,430 --> 01:31:31,920
expert a photographic expert an

2734
01:31:34,790 --> 01:31:33,440
interrogation expert

2735
01:31:37,030 --> 01:31:34,800
there'll be some sort of intelligence

2736
01:31:38,950 --> 01:31:37,040
and security guy you might find

2737
01:31:40,390 --> 01:31:38,960
that that that they're spending only

2738
01:31:41,350 --> 01:31:40,400
half an hour a week on it or you might

2739
01:31:43,270 --> 01:31:41,360
find something else

2740
01:31:45,189 --> 01:31:43,280
happens that's would be really annoying

2741
01:31:47,270 --> 01:31:45,199
would be all of a sudden ufo cases like

2742
01:31:47,590 --> 01:31:47,280
modern current ufo cases completely dry

2743
01:31:49,189 --> 01:31:47,600
up

2744
01:31:51,430 --> 01:31:49,199
they've actually got nothing to do that

2745
01:31:54,950 --> 01:31:51,440
that's my fear but it's very

2746
01:31:57,590 --> 01:31:54,960
navel focused and if they had the i mean

2747
01:32:00,470 --> 01:31:57,600
i'm hoping that they've got the

2748
01:32:01,750 --> 01:32:00,480
manpower and security clearances to you

2749
01:32:03,270 --> 01:32:01,760
the problem something i've learned

2750
01:32:04,870 --> 01:32:03,280
is that when you're dealing with the

2751
01:32:06,070 --> 01:32:04,880
organizations i was talking about before

2752
01:32:07,510 --> 01:32:06,080
particularly norad

2753
01:32:09,910 --> 01:32:07,520
right they're very very hard to push

2754
01:32:12,310 --> 01:32:09,920
around they use very very norad specific

2755
01:32:14,470 --> 01:32:12,320
systems like recording systems yeah

2756
01:32:15,430 --> 01:32:14,480
databases computer systems with multiple

2757
01:32:17,750 --> 01:32:15,440
levels of

2758
01:32:19,510 --> 01:32:17,760
of interoperability just for within

2759
01:32:23,350 --> 01:32:19,520
norad and nowhere else you know it's

2760
01:32:25,669 --> 01:32:23,360
very very um it's it's it's

2761
01:32:27,910 --> 01:32:25,679
it's very slow and it amazes me how slow

2762
01:32:29,669 --> 01:32:27,920
it is but i'm desperately hoping that

2763
01:32:32,950 --> 01:32:29,679
the naval task force will be

2764
01:32:35,030 --> 01:32:32,960
at la at least able to have

2765
01:32:36,629 --> 01:32:35,040
sit down conversations with people from

2766
01:32:38,550 --> 01:32:36,639
nasik and norad but

2767
01:32:40,390 --> 01:32:38,560
we've asked we've seen all this before

2768
01:32:43,990 --> 01:32:40,400
blue book and

2769
01:32:44,470 --> 01:32:44,000
um you know like congressional questions

2770
01:32:49,990 --> 01:32:44,480
and

2771
01:32:52,229 --> 01:32:50,000
time it amazes me do you think

2772
01:32:54,709 --> 01:32:52,239
do you think it has anything to do with

2773
01:32:57,910 --> 01:32:54,719
regards in regards to norad

2774
01:33:00,310 --> 01:32:57,920
anything to do with the the joint uh

2775
01:33:02,229 --> 01:33:00,320
canada america sovereignty it's a

2776
01:33:03,830 --> 01:33:02,239
bi-national organization unfortunately

2777
01:33:04,790 --> 01:33:03,840
big decisions like the sharing of

2778
01:33:06,629 --> 01:33:04,800
information

2779
01:33:08,149 --> 01:33:06,639
big decisions have to go through both

2780
01:33:09,830 --> 01:33:08,159
the joint chiefs of staff

2781
01:33:11,510 --> 01:33:09,840
that are ultimately responsible for

2782
01:33:13,430 --> 01:33:11,520
norad's activities and through

2783
01:33:15,189 --> 01:33:13,440
canada's parliament both have got to be

2784
01:33:16,790 --> 01:33:15,199
in agreement um

2785
01:33:18,390 --> 01:33:16,800
i do know a bit about this it's all

2786
01:33:21,189 --> 01:33:18,400
about governance and

2787
01:33:22,629 --> 01:33:21,199
and um yeah governance and guidelines

2788
01:33:24,790 --> 01:33:22,639
and it just seems

2789
01:33:26,790 --> 01:33:24,800
that about all sorts of things not just

2790
01:33:27,590 --> 01:33:26,800
about ufos or unknown aircraft or

2791
01:33:30,470 --> 01:33:27,600
whatever but

2792
01:33:32,229 --> 01:33:30,480
i've i've read a lot about norad and um

2793
01:33:33,830 --> 01:33:32,239
it just seems that they're loaded to do

2794
01:33:36,310 --> 01:33:33,840
anything that they don't have to i mean

2795
01:33:37,990 --> 01:33:36,320
even um

2796
01:33:39,350 --> 01:33:38,000
you know even paying for their own

2797
01:33:43,030 --> 01:33:39,360
buildings like even

2798
01:33:48,229 --> 01:33:43,040
paying for their i mean that they they

2799
01:33:52,149 --> 01:33:50,070
they they they push other departments

2800
01:33:52,629 --> 01:33:52,159
around quite a lot you know like i've

2801
01:33:54,070 --> 01:33:52,639
read

2802
01:33:55,910 --> 01:33:54,080
particularly around september 11 that

2803
01:33:57,750 --> 01:33:55,920
was a big one um

2804
01:33:59,270 --> 01:33:57,760
yeah getting any data out of them i mean

2805
01:34:01,030 --> 01:33:59,280
they're not even the one problem with

2806
01:34:02,870 --> 01:34:01,040
norad particularly is is that norad

2807
01:34:03,430 --> 01:34:02,880
being a bi-national organization between

2808
01:34:04,629 --> 01:34:03,440
canada

2809
01:34:05,910 --> 01:34:04,639
and the united states they're not

2810
01:34:07,189 --> 01:34:05,920
actually subject to the freedom of

2811
01:34:09,590 --> 01:34:07,199
information act

2812
01:34:12,950 --> 01:34:09,600
wow this subject it's a bit complicated

2813
01:34:16,550 --> 01:34:14,950
there is a form uh there is an

2814
01:34:18,310 --> 01:34:16,560
instruction that simply says

2815
01:34:20,390 --> 01:34:18,320
as a result of the binational

2816
01:34:22,629 --> 01:34:20,400
relationship norad

2817
01:34:25,030 --> 01:34:22,639
has between the united states and canada

2818
01:34:26,550 --> 01:34:25,040
it has been deemed i think since 1972 or

2819
01:34:30,229 --> 01:34:26,560
something it is deemed

2820
01:34:33,669 --> 01:34:30,239
that um it is deemed that norad records

2821
01:34:36,390 --> 01:34:33,679
are not um are not subject

2822
01:34:37,110 --> 01:34:36,400
to the provisions of the freedom of

2823
01:34:39,350 --> 01:34:37,120
information

2824
01:34:40,629 --> 01:34:39,360
act the only get out of jail free card

2825
01:34:42,870 --> 01:34:40,639
with this at all

2826
01:34:43,910 --> 01:34:42,880
is there is another document that says

2827
01:34:47,030 --> 01:34:43,920
that norad

2828
01:34:50,390 --> 01:34:47,040
should so not must but should

2829
01:34:53,750 --> 01:34:50,400
follow the spirit of the foi

2830
01:34:54,149 --> 01:34:53,760
act so it's basically saying when norad

2831
01:34:55,990 --> 01:34:54,159
if you

2832
01:34:57,669 --> 01:34:56,000
foi norad which you actually can do you

2833
01:34:59,350 --> 01:34:57,679
have to do it through northcom

2834
01:35:01,430 --> 01:34:59,360
which is a unified combatant command

2835
01:35:03,030 --> 01:35:01,440
that's that's uh linked very heavily

2836
01:35:05,109 --> 01:35:03,040
with norad administratively like they

2837
01:35:07,350 --> 01:35:05,119
use the same buildings and and same

2838
01:35:08,310 --> 01:35:07,360
you know like uh as various systems and

2839
01:35:11,990 --> 01:35:08,320
so on but

2840
01:35:14,470 --> 01:35:12,000
um if you do foi norad um

2841
01:35:16,470 --> 01:35:14,480
they can choose to follow the spirit of

2842
01:35:17,590 --> 01:35:16,480
the foi act like yeah we'll release this

2843
01:35:19,430 --> 01:35:17,600
will release this

2844
01:35:20,950 --> 01:35:19,440
but they absolutely do not have to and

2845
01:35:22,790 --> 01:35:20,960
you've got no recourse

2846
01:35:24,149 --> 01:35:22,800
you have absolutely you can't go to your

2847
01:35:26,310 --> 01:35:24,159
congressman you can't

2848
01:35:28,790 --> 01:35:26,320
like kick and scream and sue them and

2849
01:35:30,629 --> 01:35:28,800
all this sort of stuff you can so

2850
01:35:31,910 --> 01:35:30,639
going to norad for for requests is

2851
01:35:34,310 --> 01:35:31,920
really hit and miss and

2852
01:35:36,390 --> 01:35:34,320
um they do release certain things they

2853
01:35:37,910 --> 01:35:36,400
release really mundane stuff like awards

2854
01:35:40,550 --> 01:35:37,920
and ceremonies information

2855
01:35:41,669 --> 01:35:40,560
propaganda like really mundane stuff oh

2856
01:35:44,950 --> 01:35:41,679
it's monday to us

2857
01:35:47,590 --> 01:35:44,960
but um yeah how about that

2858
01:35:51,430 --> 01:35:47,600
yeah um you had you already talked about

2859
01:35:55,270 --> 01:35:51,440
the 84 radar evaluation squad squadron

2860
01:35:57,030 --> 01:35:55,280
oh the um that's that's an interesting

2861
01:35:59,430 --> 01:35:57,040
one uh robert powell

2862
01:36:00,790 --> 01:35:59,440
uh yeah i don't i haven't i've got a

2863
01:36:03,910 --> 01:36:00,800
it's one of my on my list of things to

2864
01:36:08,229 --> 01:36:03,920
do so the 84th radar evaluation squadron

2865
01:36:11,270 --> 01:36:08,239
um so so obviously the fred

2866
01:36:13,350 --> 01:36:11,280
the faa the faa

2867
01:36:14,870 --> 01:36:13,360
their radar systems and the software

2868
01:36:17,910 --> 01:36:14,880
that runs them

2869
01:36:20,550 --> 01:36:17,920
is extremely similar to the us

2870
01:36:22,229 --> 01:36:20,560
air force's radar systems and software

2871
01:36:23,350 --> 01:36:22,239
right they're not they are interoperable

2872
01:36:26,470 --> 01:36:23,360
they have to be

2873
01:36:28,229 --> 01:36:26,480
right and

2874
01:36:30,149 --> 01:36:28,239
what we've found out is you probably

2875
01:36:31,590 --> 01:36:30,159
heard the old adage that

2876
01:36:34,149 --> 01:36:31,600
it did apply in the past but you

2877
01:36:37,270 --> 01:36:34,159
probably heard that um

2878
01:36:40,310 --> 01:36:37,280
that air traffic control centers

2879
01:36:41,109 --> 01:36:40,320
keep radar data for 30 days so

2880
01:36:43,350 --> 01:36:41,119
everything

2881
01:36:44,709 --> 01:36:43,360
so say you've got an fai site i don't

2882
01:36:46,950 --> 01:36:44,719
know it's um

2883
01:36:48,070 --> 01:36:46,960
albuquerque right and it's and it's

2884
01:36:49,669 --> 01:36:48,080
looking um

2885
01:36:50,950 --> 01:36:49,679
it's looking around new mexico for

2886
01:36:51,990 --> 01:36:50,960
primary targets and secondary

2887
01:36:54,870 --> 01:36:52,000
surveillance targets so

2888
01:36:56,470 --> 01:36:54,880
transport so actual physical bodies in

2889
01:36:57,109 --> 01:36:56,480
the sky that are reflecting of radio

2890
01:36:59,030 --> 01:36:57,119
waves and

2891
01:37:01,270 --> 01:36:59,040
also transponder signals right you've

2892
01:37:03,109 --> 01:37:01,280
got you've got 30 days

2893
01:37:04,470 --> 01:37:03,119
where it's it's usually common that

2894
01:37:05,910 --> 01:37:04,480
you'll see that

2895
01:37:07,910 --> 01:37:05,920
or certainly in australia in america

2896
01:37:08,390 --> 01:37:07,920
that radar data like a full radar

2897
01:37:09,910 --> 01:37:08,400
picture

2898
01:37:12,149 --> 01:37:09,920
around an airport or an air defense

2899
01:37:15,430 --> 01:37:12,159
facility or whatever

2900
01:37:17,590 --> 01:37:15,440
it radar data is kept for 30 days

2901
01:37:19,590 --> 01:37:17,600
and then it's written over right that's

2902
01:37:21,830 --> 01:37:19,600
all very well for 1970

2903
01:37:24,390 --> 01:37:21,840
right but we're not in 1970 or 1980

2904
01:37:27,830 --> 01:37:24,400
anymore it's the 2020s

2905
01:37:30,870 --> 01:37:27,840
and and surprise surprise that

2906
01:37:31,430 --> 01:37:30,880
old yarn about keeping radar data for 30

2907
01:37:33,750 --> 01:37:31,440
days

2908
01:37:35,430 --> 01:37:33,760
it ain't true right it's kept for as

2909
01:37:37,750 --> 01:37:35,440
long as i damn we'll want to keep it for

2910
01:37:39,030 --> 01:37:37,760
for starters my first when i kept seeing

2911
01:37:41,910 --> 01:37:39,040
that my first reaction

2912
01:37:43,350 --> 01:37:41,920
was this this isn't right because my

2913
01:37:44,709 --> 01:37:43,360
first reaction is i know that air

2914
01:37:46,390 --> 01:37:44,719
traffic controllers when they learn like

2915
01:37:47,270 --> 01:37:46,400
when they go to school which is three

2916
01:37:48,709 --> 01:37:47,280
years or whatever

2917
01:37:50,950 --> 01:37:48,719
when they go to school they use

2918
01:37:53,750 --> 01:37:50,960
simulations so they actually

2919
01:37:54,790 --> 01:37:53,760
do keep old radar data picture from

2920
01:37:57,750 --> 01:37:54,800
airports

2921
01:37:59,030 --> 01:37:57,760
to train um air traffic controllers so

2922
01:38:00,629 --> 01:37:59,040
at least some is kept

2923
01:38:02,070 --> 01:38:00,639
and then of course some radar data is

2924
01:38:03,430 --> 01:38:02,080
kept for ongoing investigations

2925
01:38:05,350 --> 01:38:03,440
statistical studies

2926
01:38:07,510 --> 01:38:05,360
looking for radar glitches software

2927
01:38:10,070 --> 01:38:07,520
glitches software updates whatever so

2928
01:38:11,350 --> 01:38:10,080
the idea that all radar data is thrown

2929
01:38:14,629 --> 01:38:11,360
out after 30 days

2930
01:38:15,510 --> 01:38:14,639
[\h__\h] so but then i find out through

2931
01:38:18,550 --> 01:38:15,520
robert powell

2932
01:38:20,790 --> 01:38:18,560
and to a lesser extent me found out that

2933
01:38:22,310 --> 01:38:20,800
um it turns out that a massive

2934
01:38:25,590 --> 01:38:22,320
proportion of

2935
01:38:27,669 --> 01:38:25,600
faa civil airport radar data

2936
01:38:29,189 --> 01:38:27,679
is actually streamed i don't know if

2937
01:38:29,669 --> 01:38:29,199
it's live or at the end of each week or

2938
01:38:31,830 --> 01:38:29,679
whatever

2939
01:38:33,990 --> 01:38:31,840
but it's actually streamed to this

2940
01:38:35,669 --> 01:38:34,000
squadron it's called the 84th radar

2941
01:38:37,590 --> 01:38:35,679
evaluation squadron

2942
01:38:39,109 --> 01:38:37,600
and for a long time it was at hill air

2943
01:38:42,470 --> 01:38:39,119
force base in utah

2944
01:38:45,189 --> 01:38:42,480
but recently it's moved to um to langley

2945
01:38:45,510 --> 01:38:45,199
airfield in virginia i think anyway this

2946
01:38:48,149 --> 01:38:45,520
this

2947
01:38:49,910 --> 01:38:48,159
84th radar evaluation squadron when you

2948
01:38:51,669 --> 01:38:49,920
go to the limited information it's

2949
01:38:53,350 --> 01:38:51,679
probably only got like 80 people that

2950
01:38:55,109 --> 01:38:53,360
work there a lot of them would be

2951
01:38:56,550 --> 01:38:55,119
technicians and payroll people whatever

2952
01:38:57,590 --> 01:38:56,560
i don't i don't know the structure of

2953
01:39:00,870 --> 01:38:57,600
the squadron

2954
01:39:03,830 --> 01:39:00,880
but it turns out that they they have

2955
01:39:05,669 --> 01:39:03,840
they basically are a squadron that is if

2956
01:39:08,790 --> 01:39:05,679
you read about them they're a squadron

2957
01:39:09,910 --> 01:39:08,800
that is dedicated to radar performance

2958
01:39:12,790 --> 01:39:09,920
enhancements

2959
01:39:15,270 --> 01:39:12,800
radar technology accuracy acquisition

2960
01:39:17,350 --> 01:39:15,280
radar software updating for both civil

2961
01:39:20,470 --> 01:39:17,360
like the fia and the air force

2962
01:39:24,390 --> 01:39:20,480
um and and like radar analysis

2963
01:39:26,790 --> 01:39:24,400
glitch solving high-level training

2964
01:39:29,270 --> 01:39:26,800
specialist training uh radar

2965
01:39:30,709 --> 01:39:29,280
like radar investigative training for

2966
01:39:31,510 --> 01:39:30,719
search and rescue missions that sort of

2967
01:39:34,950 --> 01:39:31,520
thing so

2968
01:39:37,750 --> 01:39:34,960
it's no surprise that the faa ascending

2969
01:39:39,109 --> 01:39:37,760
uh basically the implication was that

2970
01:39:40,950 --> 01:39:39,119
again i haven't studied this for a good

2971
01:39:42,229 --> 01:39:40,960
four or five years but the implication

2972
01:39:43,750 --> 01:39:42,239
was was that

2973
01:39:45,590 --> 01:39:43,760
was that despite the fact we're

2974
01:39:47,669 --> 01:39:45,600
constantly told that the faa

2975
01:39:48,709 --> 01:39:47,679
and even our air service australia and

2976
01:39:52,390 --> 01:39:48,719
australia

2977
01:39:55,270 --> 01:39:52,400
in my country um that that they keep

2978
01:39:57,430 --> 01:39:55,280
that this old story this this this old

2979
01:39:59,430 --> 01:39:57,440
double speak half truth that they keep

2980
01:40:01,750 --> 01:39:59,440
radar data for 30 days [\h__\h]

2981
01:40:03,669 --> 01:40:01,760
yeah so we and surprise surprise we find

2982
01:40:06,790 --> 01:40:03,679
out that huge reams of it

2983
01:40:07,350 --> 01:40:06,800
are stored permanently or for a long

2984
01:40:09,830 --> 01:40:07,360
time

2985
01:40:10,390 --> 01:40:09,840
at the 84th radar evaluation squadron

2986
01:40:11,510 --> 01:40:10,400
and

2987
01:40:13,510 --> 01:40:11,520
i haven't actually dealt with them

2988
01:40:14,709 --> 01:40:13,520
directly yet i've got to talk to them or

2989
01:40:16,229 --> 01:40:14,719
you know if i wear them or whatever i

2990
01:40:16,550 --> 01:40:16,239
don't even know where i'm going to start

2991
01:40:18,709 --> 01:40:16,560
like

2992
01:40:20,390 --> 01:40:18,719
y'all can't just say that oh i want you

2993
01:40:22,790 --> 01:40:20,400
to search through you know 10 million

2994
01:40:24,070 --> 01:40:22,800
terabytes of radar data looking for ufos

2995
01:40:25,430 --> 01:40:24,080
they're just i mean it's just stupid

2996
01:40:26,790 --> 01:40:25,440
like they're gonna deny you know they

2997
01:40:28,709 --> 01:40:26,800
won't even answer that but i'm gonna

2998
01:40:31,350 --> 01:40:28,719
have to find something very pointed

2999
01:40:31,830 --> 01:40:31,360
and and very specific with that um maybe

3000
01:40:34,550 --> 01:40:31,840
maybe

3001
01:40:36,870 --> 01:40:34,560
something like any foi any reports or

3002
01:40:39,350 --> 01:40:36,880
final analytical papers point papers

3003
01:40:42,149 --> 01:40:39,360
bullet point papers assessments

3004
01:40:43,270 --> 01:40:42,159
on that they've written yeah in the last

3005
01:40:45,350 --> 01:40:43,280
you know year

3006
01:40:47,189 --> 01:40:45,360
so that gives them a very short period

3007
01:40:47,590 --> 01:40:47,199
of time to like to work with so i'm not

3008
01:40:50,310 --> 01:40:47,600
saying

3009
01:40:51,189 --> 01:40:50,320
all documents i might give them a chance

3010
01:40:54,310 --> 01:40:51,199
to release any

3011
01:40:56,149 --> 01:40:54,320
finished product like final processed um

3012
01:40:57,030 --> 01:40:56,159
reports and basically opinion pieces

3013
01:40:58,790 --> 01:40:57,040
about

3014
01:41:00,070 --> 01:40:58,800
unknown objects that appear on radar

3015
01:41:00,629 --> 01:41:00,080
because they can't just ask for radar

3016
01:41:04,149 --> 01:41:00,639
data

3017
01:41:06,629 --> 01:41:04,159
they get it to you terabytes of it

3018
01:41:08,149 --> 01:41:06,639
i can't send it on a cd it's just really

3019
01:41:09,669 --> 01:41:08,159
and how would you play it like this is

3020
01:41:11,109 --> 01:41:09,679
the problem with radar data people say

3021
01:41:12,790 --> 01:41:11,119
oh just get the radar data

3022
01:41:14,390 --> 01:41:12,800
right as if you know like well how are

3023
01:41:16,390 --> 01:41:14,400
you going to play it right it's only

3024
01:41:17,270 --> 01:41:16,400
playable on the on root toolkit system

3025
01:41:19,430 --> 01:41:17,280
that the faa

3026
01:41:21,270 --> 01:41:19,440
owned and paid for right like you can't

3027
01:41:24,310 --> 01:41:21,280
just play on a laptop

3028
01:41:27,189 --> 01:41:24,320
i know but um i've seen

3029
01:41:28,950 --> 01:41:27,199
somewhere where they they printed out

3030
01:41:30,870 --> 01:41:28,960
something that was on on radar

3031
01:41:32,790 --> 01:41:30,880
so sometimes we printed but i mean it

3032
01:41:34,870 --> 01:41:32,800
would only be for the target

3033
01:41:36,470 --> 01:41:34,880
you can you can request target printouts

3034
01:41:38,390 --> 01:41:36,480
for every unknown object

3035
01:41:40,229 --> 01:41:38,400
that was up there you could they're just

3036
01:41:42,310 --> 01:41:40,239
reams of information like

3037
01:41:44,149 --> 01:41:42,320
direction heading bearing azimuth size

3038
01:41:46,229 --> 01:41:44,159
of aircraft name of aircraft

3039
01:41:47,830 --> 01:41:46,239
bracket was there was it in distress

3040
01:41:48,950 --> 01:41:47,840
blah blah blah blah but you can get that

3041
01:41:51,109 --> 01:41:48,960
even that you've got to be a technical

3042
01:41:52,629 --> 01:41:51,119
expert to understand it there is one way

3043
01:41:54,390 --> 01:41:52,639
of getting radar data

3044
01:41:55,669 --> 01:41:54,400
that you can actually play but they're

3045
01:41:57,510 --> 01:41:55,679
loath to do it and i think they've

3046
01:41:59,590 --> 01:41:57,520
actually stopped doing it now

3047
01:42:01,270 --> 01:41:59,600
robert powell knows a lot about this but

3048
01:42:04,229 --> 01:42:01,280
what you can ask for

3049
01:42:05,830 --> 01:42:04,239
is say radar data from a particular site

3050
01:42:06,950 --> 01:42:05,840
over an eight hour say you think there

3051
01:42:09,510 --> 01:42:06,960
was a ufo case

3052
01:42:10,709 --> 01:42:09,520
over i don't know tallahassee florida

3053
01:42:13,750 --> 01:42:10,719
whatever

3054
01:42:14,310 --> 01:42:13,760
you ask for say eight hours of radar

3055
01:42:18,629 --> 01:42:14,320
data

3056
01:42:19,350 --> 01:42:18,639
site that looks you know 150 miles

3057
01:42:22,390 --> 01:42:19,360
around

3058
01:42:23,669 --> 01:42:22,400
the area into the sky and then you say

3059
01:42:25,270 --> 01:42:23,679
you have to be very specific and quick

3060
01:42:28,709 --> 01:42:25,280
about this you say

3061
01:42:31,510 --> 01:42:28,719
if possible can the format be um

3062
01:42:33,430 --> 01:42:31,520
converted into windows media player with

3063
01:42:34,390 --> 01:42:33,440
cartesian coordinates top of the screen

3064
01:42:35,910 --> 01:42:34,400
for north

3065
01:42:37,350 --> 01:42:35,920
um bottomless screen for south and

3066
01:42:38,310 --> 01:42:37,360
you've got to say a lot of technical

3067
01:42:39,750 --> 01:42:38,320
stuff like

3068
01:42:42,070 --> 01:42:39,760
um the time period you don't just say

3069
01:42:44,390 --> 01:42:42,080
eight hours you i'd say you know like a

3070
01:42:46,950 --> 01:42:44,400
thousand minutes or whatever a thousand

3071
01:42:48,229 --> 01:42:46,960
you know there's a way of doing it

3072
01:42:50,629 --> 01:42:48,239
that's it's that's

3073
01:42:51,270 --> 01:42:50,639
um quite specific and then they they

3074
01:42:53,910 --> 01:42:51,280
have to

3075
01:42:55,109 --> 01:42:53,920
i mean if you appeal if they said no we

3076
01:42:55,990 --> 01:42:55,119
don't do that you could appeal it and

3077
01:42:58,870 --> 01:42:56,000
appeal and make them look

3078
01:43:00,070 --> 01:42:58,880
stupid but um but as far as just asking

3079
01:43:02,870 --> 01:43:00,080
for radar data

3080
01:43:04,550 --> 01:43:02,880
very hard to do well i have to say this

3081
01:43:05,910 --> 01:43:04,560
uh we have a question someone asked

3082
01:43:09,030 --> 01:43:05,920
quite a while ago

3083
01:43:12,470 --> 01:43:09,040
but i want to say that you are

3084
01:43:15,430 --> 01:43:12,480
you are a gift to this field

3085
01:43:17,270 --> 01:43:15,440
ufology you really are um uh the work

3086
01:43:19,350 --> 01:43:17,280
that you're doing the dedication

3087
01:43:20,709 --> 01:43:19,360
and uh you're such a bright guy and you

3088
01:43:22,870 --> 01:43:20,719
know um

3089
01:43:24,470 --> 01:43:22,880
you know how to mine this stuff you know

3090
01:43:26,229 --> 01:43:24,480
how to you know where to go

3091
01:43:27,590 --> 01:43:26,239
to dig it up but the question we had

3092
01:43:29,990 --> 01:43:27,600
quite a while back

3093
01:43:31,510 --> 01:43:30,000
um and because i can't believe i'm even

3094
01:43:33,270 --> 01:43:31,520
saying this but we only have like seven

3095
01:43:36,310 --> 01:43:33,280
minutes left of the show

3096
01:43:38,149 --> 01:43:36,320
um but it just went so fast um someone

3097
01:43:42,149 --> 01:43:38,159
wanted to know if you've ever looked

3098
01:43:45,430 --> 01:43:42,159
into the west all um incident

3099
01:43:48,550 --> 01:43:45,440
yeah it's really frustrating yeah i knew

3100
01:43:53,430 --> 01:43:51,590
april 1966 melbourne my city

3101
01:43:55,270 --> 01:43:53,440
so it happened it actually happened

3102
01:43:58,229 --> 01:43:55,280
about about eight

3103
01:44:00,870 --> 01:43:58,239
i don't know about 10 miles from my plat

3104
01:44:05,750 --> 01:44:02,950
the story goes that a large number of

3105
01:44:08,070 --> 01:44:05,760
school children

3106
01:44:09,750 --> 01:44:08,080
it just coming in finishing first recess

3107
01:44:11,669 --> 01:44:09,760
so about we're talking about 10

3108
01:44:13,350 --> 01:44:11,679
10 15 10 20 in the morning large number

3109
01:44:16,070 --> 01:44:13,360
of school children witness

3110
01:44:17,669 --> 01:44:16,080
one two or three ufos in the sky playing

3111
01:44:19,350 --> 01:44:17,679
a bit of cat and mouse coming towards

3112
01:44:21,430 --> 01:44:19,360
the ground

3113
01:44:23,189 --> 01:44:21,440
they luckily they called a school

3114
01:44:25,189 --> 01:44:23,199
teacher who was a school science teacher

3115
01:44:27,990 --> 01:44:25,199
actually and he saw it as well

3116
01:44:28,470 --> 01:44:28,000
he saw two objects um and then there was

3117
01:44:35,109 --> 01:44:28,480
a

3118
01:44:39,109 --> 01:44:35,119
the story goes

3119
01:44:41,750 --> 01:44:39,119
right there's an enormous amount of

3120
01:44:42,550 --> 01:44:41,760
hyperbole here like if you read the

3121
01:44:44,149 --> 01:44:42,560
current hype

3122
01:44:46,070 --> 01:44:44,159
story that would get into a tabloid

3123
01:44:48,390 --> 01:44:46,080
magazine they will tell you that there

3124
01:44:50,070 --> 01:44:48,400
was hundreds of witnesses

3125
01:44:52,629 --> 01:44:50,080
that there was burn marks all over the

3126
01:44:55,030 --> 01:44:52,639
ground like circular landing points

3127
01:44:56,709 --> 01:44:55,040
that there was up to five ufos that

3128
01:44:58,870 --> 01:44:56,719
there was a massive government cover-up

3129
01:45:00,790 --> 01:44:58,880
that the americans were involved

3130
01:45:02,070 --> 01:45:00,800
that there was radiation that those

3131
01:45:03,990 --> 01:45:02,080
missing people

3132
01:45:05,350 --> 01:45:04,000
that the actual true number of witnesses

3133
01:45:07,510 --> 01:45:05,360
outside the school may be in the

3134
01:45:09,910 --> 01:45:07,520
thousands they were all silenced

3135
01:45:12,149 --> 01:45:09,920
cameras were stolen right i did hear

3136
01:45:13,350 --> 01:45:12,159
about the cameras yeah

3137
01:45:15,669 --> 01:45:13,360
half this stuff definitely did not

3138
01:45:16,310 --> 01:45:15,679
happen if you go back to the original

3139
01:45:17,830 --> 01:45:16,320
story

3140
01:45:19,590 --> 01:45:17,840
we're not talking about hundreds of

3141
01:45:22,070 --> 01:45:19,600
school students here we're talking about

3142
01:45:23,510 --> 01:45:22,080
a number which it's still impressive

3143
01:45:24,629 --> 01:45:23,520
it's still a multi-witness signing no

3144
01:45:27,109 --> 01:45:24,639
question about that

3145
01:45:28,310 --> 01:45:27,119
the honest the honest answer is we

3146
01:45:29,590 --> 01:45:28,320
actually don't know how many witnesses

3147
01:45:31,590 --> 01:45:29,600
there were there could have been

3148
01:45:34,149 --> 01:45:31,600
60 there could have been 12 it could

3149
01:45:36,470 --> 01:45:34,159
have been 42 we don't know

3150
01:45:37,990 --> 01:45:36,480
we can also say that when you hear

3151
01:45:39,910 --> 01:45:38,000
things like oh the science teacher

3152
01:45:42,470 --> 01:45:39,920
andrew greenwood saw the ufo

3153
01:45:43,590 --> 01:45:42,480
right it is true he did see it but it

3154
01:45:45,590 --> 01:45:43,600
was so small

3155
01:45:46,709 --> 01:45:45,600
sorry the two of them the two ufos were

3156
01:45:48,550 --> 01:45:46,719
so small

3157
01:45:50,790 --> 01:45:48,560
he had to have them pointed out like the

3158
01:45:52,149 --> 01:45:50,800
kids he he said in an interview with

3159
01:45:54,550 --> 01:45:52,159
actually you know the

3160
01:45:55,590 --> 01:45:54,560
atmospheric physicist james macdonald dr

3161
01:45:57,910 --> 01:45:55,600
james

3162
01:45:58,790 --> 01:45:57,920
from arizona yeah yeah he actually came

3163
01:46:00,550 --> 01:45:58,800
to melbourne

3164
01:46:02,310 --> 01:46:00,560
and he interviewed andrew greenwood who

3165
01:46:03,510 --> 01:46:02,320
was the science teacher about a year

3166
01:46:06,629 --> 01:46:03,520
after it happened

3167
01:46:07,990 --> 01:46:06,639
and and he interviewed him and and

3168
01:46:09,590 --> 01:46:08,000
and we've got a tape recording of the

3169
01:46:10,390 --> 01:46:09,600
interview you can hear it and andrew

3170
01:46:12,550 --> 01:46:10,400
greenwood

3171
01:46:14,870 --> 01:46:12,560
does say that he only had to have the

3172
01:46:16,390 --> 01:46:14,880
students actually point out where it was

3173
01:46:18,390 --> 01:46:16,400
it's not like it was hovering above

3174
01:46:20,229 --> 01:46:18,400
their heads you know blasting

3175
01:46:21,910 --> 01:46:20,239
with radiation and stuff it was so far

3176
01:46:23,270 --> 01:46:21,920
away that he had to have it pointed out

3177
01:46:24,709 --> 01:46:23,280
like then he had to squint like he

3178
01:46:26,070 --> 01:46:24,719
actually had to squint his eyes to see

3179
01:46:28,310 --> 01:46:26,080
two ufos

3180
01:46:29,510 --> 01:46:28,320
right so you there's a whole lot of

3181
01:46:31,510 --> 01:46:29,520
these

3182
01:46:33,109 --> 01:46:31,520
stories that you can reduce by going

3183
01:46:34,390 --> 01:46:33,119
back to the original information another

3184
01:46:37,189 --> 01:46:34,400
one is this

3185
01:46:38,229 --> 01:46:37,199
james macdonald interviewed james dole

3186
01:46:40,550 --> 01:46:38,239
came to australia

3187
01:46:41,830 --> 01:46:40,560
he interviewed andrew greenwood and he

3188
01:46:43,910 --> 01:46:41,840
studied the case

3189
01:46:45,189 --> 01:46:43,920
like other like ufo researchers gave him

3190
01:46:46,790 --> 01:46:45,199
some case material the original

3191
01:46:50,149 --> 01:46:46,800
newspaper reports whatever

3192
01:46:52,229 --> 01:46:50,159
right only a year later james

3193
01:46:53,990 --> 01:46:52,239
dr james macdonald got up and you know

3194
01:46:56,229 --> 01:46:54,000
the 1968 house

3195
01:46:57,910 --> 01:46:56,239
symposium on for astronautics and

3196
01:46:58,470 --> 01:46:57,920
aeronautics that that they had a

3197
01:47:01,030 --> 01:46:58,480
three-pay

3198
01:47:02,629 --> 01:47:01,040
a three-day panel on ufos yeah right it

3199
01:47:05,030 --> 01:47:02,639
was it was a congressional it was a

3200
01:47:05,830 --> 01:47:05,040
sorry it was a house appropriations it

3201
01:47:07,629 --> 01:47:05,840
was a yeah it was

3202
01:47:09,109 --> 01:47:07,639
it was a basically there was it was the

3203
01:47:12,550 --> 01:47:09,119
1968

3204
01:47:15,189 --> 01:47:12,560
um panel on ufos and speakers were james

3205
01:47:17,590 --> 01:47:15,199
mcdonald harder whatever else right

3206
01:47:18,629 --> 01:47:17,600
and james mcdonald spoke for however

3207
01:47:20,870 --> 01:47:18,639
many hours

3208
01:47:22,229 --> 01:47:20,880
and where he got to his section well he

3209
01:47:24,070 --> 01:47:22,239
was literally speaking for hours where

3210
01:47:24,709 --> 01:47:24,080
he got to his section on multi-witness

3211
01:47:26,149 --> 01:47:24,719
sightings

3212
01:47:27,910 --> 01:47:26,159
where there's many many people that see

3213
01:47:29,669 --> 01:47:27,920
ufos he

3214
01:47:31,750 --> 01:47:29,679
but i remember he'd only just look like

3215
01:47:33,750 --> 01:47:31,760
in the last year he just studied westall

3216
01:47:37,350 --> 01:47:33,760
and just interviewed a primary witness

3217
01:47:39,030 --> 01:47:37,360
to get up in 1968 and and talk

3218
01:47:40,790 --> 01:47:39,040
about say the westall case you would

3219
01:47:41,590 --> 01:47:40,800
think it would be a slam dunk he didn't

3220
01:47:43,669 --> 01:47:41,600
even mention it

3221
01:47:45,030 --> 01:47:43,679
he thought it was that unimportant yep

3222
01:47:46,149 --> 01:47:45,040
he had a section that went for you know

3223
01:47:47,910 --> 01:47:46,159
half an hour where he talked about

3224
01:47:49,669 --> 01:47:47,920
multi-witness sightings

3225
01:47:51,590 --> 01:47:49,679
didn't even mention it he could have

3226
01:47:52,790 --> 01:47:51,600
even just 10 seconds were you know i

3227
01:47:53,350 --> 01:47:52,800
went to melbourne and i interviewed a

3228
01:47:55,590 --> 01:47:53,360
teacher and

3229
01:47:57,669 --> 01:47:55,600
blah blah blah blah blah 2050 school

3230
01:47:58,550 --> 01:47:57,679
kids saw a ufo or two ufos he could have

3231
01:48:00,550 --> 01:47:58,560
at least done that

3232
01:48:02,310 --> 01:48:00,560
didn't even bother he apparently he

3233
01:48:04,070 --> 01:48:02,320
found it that unimportant

3234
01:48:05,750 --> 01:48:04,080
that you know so there's a whole there's

3235
01:48:06,790 --> 01:48:05,760
you know there's a lot of other things

3236
01:48:08,149 --> 01:48:06,800
about it i don't like

3237
01:48:09,830 --> 01:48:08,159
and there's a lot of things culturally

3238
01:48:11,430 --> 01:48:09,840
it's important but there's a lot of

3239
01:48:13,270 --> 01:48:11,440
things i don't like about it

3240
01:48:14,790 --> 01:48:13,280
wow how about that wow never heard that

3241
01:48:16,229 --> 01:48:14,800
side of it it's good

3242
01:48:18,229 --> 01:48:16,239
you know i consider you a healthy

3243
01:48:20,629 --> 01:48:18,239
skeptic and it's good to hear

3244
01:48:22,470 --> 01:48:20,639
it's good to hear that part of it um uh

3245
01:48:24,229 --> 01:48:22,480
because you're right um

3246
01:48:26,070 --> 01:48:24,239
i have to say this you know media can

3247
01:48:28,149 --> 01:48:26,080
get a hold of things and

3248
01:48:29,430 --> 01:48:28,159
you know the time goes by and you know

3249
01:48:32,790 --> 01:48:29,440
who knows what really happened at

3250
01:48:34,470 --> 01:48:32,800
roswell but now there's a parade there

3251
01:48:35,910 --> 01:48:34,480
you know and and who knows what that'll

3252
01:48:38,070 --> 01:48:35,920
end up um

3253
01:48:40,070 --> 01:48:38,080
so do you like to interact with people

3254
01:48:41,430 --> 01:48:40,080
like if someone had some information

3255
01:48:43,750 --> 01:48:41,440
they wanted to get in touch with you is

3256
01:48:45,590 --> 01:48:43,760
that something you you do actively

3257
01:48:47,189 --> 01:48:45,600
and and is it just facebook i know

3258
01:48:50,790 --> 01:48:47,199
that's how you and i first collected

3259
01:48:54,310 --> 01:48:50,800
facebook is one way my email address is

3260
01:48:57,990 --> 01:48:54,320
lowercase p j underscore

3261
01:48:58,950 --> 01:48:58,000
d e a n at hotmail.com that's a good way

3262
01:49:04,950 --> 01:48:58,960
or

3263
01:49:06,470 --> 01:49:04,960
yeah okay well paul thank you so much

3264
01:49:08,709 --> 01:49:06,480
it's been a real pleasure

3265
01:49:10,870 --> 01:49:08,719
and um thank you for you know being

3266
01:49:12,149 --> 01:49:10,880
persistent uh with me so we can get you

3267
01:49:13,990 --> 01:49:12,159
on the show

3268
01:49:15,750 --> 01:49:14,000
and uh i really do like to say you're a

3269
01:49:18,070 --> 01:49:15,760
gift to this uh field

3270
01:49:19,510 --> 01:49:18,080
and um i really do appreciate i highly

3271
01:49:21,430 --> 01:49:19,520
appreciate what you do

3272
01:49:22,709 --> 01:49:21,440
that's thank you very much all right

3273
01:49:25,030 --> 01:49:22,719
well it's been good to be on i

3274
01:49:26,629 --> 01:49:25,040
like i like doing this occasionally yes

3275
01:49:29,669 --> 01:49:26,639
all right you take things

3276
01:49:30,870 --> 01:49:29,679
all right all right bye now all right

3277
01:49:32,870 --> 01:49:30,880
that's it for to

3278
01:49:33,990 --> 01:49:32,880
for tonight's show thank you so much for

3279
01:49:36,950 --> 01:49:34,000
listening and

3280
01:49:38,310 --> 01:49:36,960
our next week's guest is a mystery guest

3281
01:49:40,629 --> 01:49:38,320
only because uh

3282
01:49:42,550 --> 01:49:40,639
i don't know who it is yet i had uh

3283
01:49:45,830 --> 01:49:42,560
someone that had to reschedule

3284
01:49:48,870 --> 01:49:45,840
so we uh i i do say this if you want to

3285
01:49:49,830 --> 01:49:48,880
go to our website podcastufo.com and

3286
01:49:51,669 --> 01:49:49,840
sign up on our

3287
01:49:53,750 --> 01:49:51,679
uh mailing list it's on the right

3288
01:49:57,109 --> 01:49:53,760
sidebar so you can go there

3289
01:49:59,430 --> 01:49:57,119
and sign up for uh mailings so you will

3290
01:50:02,229 --> 01:49:59,440
find out who is on our show

3291
01:50:02,550 --> 01:50:02,239
and it's also uh on youtube here if you

3292
01:50:04,629 --> 01:50:02,560
just

3293
01:50:05,830 --> 01:50:04,639
click the subscribe button and the

3294
01:50:07,350 --> 01:50:05,840
little bell next to it you'll get

3295
01:50:09,350 --> 01:50:07,360
notification emails

3296
01:50:11,350 --> 01:50:09,360
so thank you so much everyone and we'll

3297
01:50:12,070 --> 01:50:11,360
see you next week and remember to keep

3298
01:50:31,950 --> 01:50:12,080
your eyes